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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Phil
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 13-08-2007 21:15 |
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Razhwurz wrote:
As far as Two-Face... I hated him. The character is about confliction and duality... But in this he's just a crazy guy who makes decisions on a coin toss.
that's exactly the opposite of what he is in the movie. lol. i would have liked a crazy guy who made decisions on a coin toss...but in batman forever, he would keep on flipping the coin until he could kill the guy. the thing with two face is that he's like half good, half bad...and that one episode was really cool in TNBA where he was the judge. that's the kind of two face i like.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
 
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Razhwurz
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
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| Posted on 13-08-2007 23:06 |
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Phil wrote:
that's exactly the opposite of what he is in the movie. lol. i would have liked a crazy guy who made decisions on a coin toss...but in batman forever, he would keep on flipping the coin until he could kill the guy.
That was one scene. Through the entire movie, exculding that scene, he makes decisions based on the coin. However, it's not out of a confliction of personalities; instead he just has an obsessive compulsion to make decision based on a coin.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Phil
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 13-08-2007 23:38 |
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oh. i might have to watch it again. haha. i remember the very beginning and the very end of the movie...i think that's it. lol.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
kryptosdaddy
Posts: 10
Joined: 23.08.07
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| Posted on 24-08-2007 08:20 |
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Keaton suprised me, but Kilmer nailed the character. Of those four films Batman Forever was my favorite, it shouldn't have been that way but in my opinion, Burton really screwed up the Penguin in Batman Returns. If you delete 90% of Devito's scenes in the movie and just have him cameoing with Catwoman, the film is alot better!
My main gripe about the look of these films was the use of all that neon and stupid dress the bad guys henchmen up like clowns approach that was used in ALL the films. Burton should have never touched this, he should stick to his own original work and leave the legends alone. Look he cast Jack Nicholson as the Joker!? That was great if only for the novelty, now we can never say "wouldn't be cool if Jack played the Joker" while we sit around watching
the Shining" for the 40th time. I know I will catch it for saying that, but c'mon, the Joker middle aged and fat at the BEGINING of his career? Just another notch in Jack's belt while i have to go and tighten mine-
Commissioner Gordon and Batman NOT having the one to one relationship? Batman gives the city the Batsignal? Are you kidding? Look guy, everyone is trying to figure out WHO you really are, they figure he's rich, and single, but giving away a piece of equipment like that aces the question "Is he local" . Besides it's sitting ontop of police headquarters don't think someone wouldn't think to try and find out where it came from and who paid for it.
Those movies were awful and great at once, and yes i have them all!
Perhaps I wouldn't be so bitter if Shoemaker hadn't followed Burton's lead and really f&^K@& *p Batman and Robin from the get out- Making Barbara PENNYWORTH?!?!?! Batgirl with NO nipples on her costume while installing them on the outfits of the two guys shows where his mind was. And did anyone notice through the entire punishment that was that 4th movie that the vehicles looked like movie versions of action figure vehicles instead of the other way around? Even the outfits changed during the film so that they looked at the end like they had just walked out of Toys R Us !
Sorry but as an old school purist of this great piece of mythology I see some things as sacred. Moving some of the pieces around so they fit a little better is fine, but don't pull something like this inside out. 
"From the begining I knew, there was nothing wrong with you that I couldn't fix with my hands" |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
kryptosdaddy
Posts: 10
Joined: 23.08.07
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| Posted on 24-08-2007 08:23 |
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sorry I think I put that ^ in the wrong thread, still getting my legs on this forum.
"From the begining I knew, there was nothing wrong with you that I couldn't fix with my hands" |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
batfan925
Posts: 20
Joined: 05.02.08
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| Posted on 15-06-2008 23:59 |
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I think this movie would have been alot srtonger if it had been the last of the 4, making the franchise a trilogy. it would have been a good ending for the series.
THE GOOD- Val kilmer as batman. he did an okay job with the character, but did we really need the bat-nipples
Jim carrey as riddler, he chanelled the insanity of the character, which was necassary, because he teamed with the the joker, who was also crazy (not jack nikelson's joker, tommy-lee's joker
THE BAD- Nicole kidman. we go from one love intrest, the mind blowing performance of catwoman by (i don't wan't to butcher her name) to this. why was chase what's her face even here?
chris o donell- so you mean to tell me that joker killed dicks and bruce's parents? robin was barely there and seved no purpose other than to sell the film. |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Batkilt
Posts: 68
Joined: 10.06.08
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| Posted on 16-06-2008 07:29 |
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batfan925 wrote:
I think this movie would have been alot srtonger if it had been the last of the 4, making the franchise a trilogy. it would have been a good ending for the series.
THE GOOD- Val kilmer as batman. he did an okay job with the character, but did we really need the bat-nipples
Jim carrey as riddler, he chanelled the insanity of the character, which was necassary, because he teamed with the the joker, who was also crazy (not jack nikelson's joker, tommy-lee's joker
THE BAD- Nicole kidman. we go from one love intrest, the mind blowing performance of catwoman by (i don't wan't to butcher her name) to this. why was chase what's her face even here?
chris o donell- so you mean to tell me that joker killed dicks and bruce's parents? robin was barely there and seved no purpose other than to sell the film.
I think this is the second thread I've posted that I agree with you, but we seem to share similar thoughts about Batman Forever!
Val Kilmer did a really good job in my opinion, he has that brooding intensity that you need in order to pull off Bruce Wayne. Michael Keaton was good as the sort of clumsy but sombre Bruce, and George Clooney had the charm to pull off Bruce as a playboy, but Val had everything you need to piece it all together. The bat nipples were a bit unflattering though...
One thing that I didn't like about the casting of Kilmer as Batman - and it's nothing to do with his performance - is that he just doesn't seem old enough when standing next to Chris O'Donnell as Dick Grayson/Robin. Had Michael Keaton still been in the role or had Grayson been a younger character with a younger actor playing him it would have worked, but I don't think the Wayne/Grayson relationship really came off properly in the film.
I liked Carrey's performance of The Riddler, and in terms of the story his increasingly erratic/manic behaviour made sense to me, what with his motivation at being spurned by his idol. The Riddler being the brains of a duo also works, but not with the other character being Two-Face. Two-Face should be smart enough to head up his own operation, but here he was more comic fodder than threatening, and as Razhwurz pointed out Two-Face comes across as more OCD than having split personalities. I liked kryptosdaddy's point about The Penguin in Batman Returns. If anything a Riddler/Penguin team-up for Batman Forever would have been better, although not with the way Tim Burton handled The Penguin.
I know some people don't like Bruce going to see a therapist in Batman Forever, but I liked the idea of him coming to realise through this that he needs to have these issues from his parents' murder in order to be Batman. It's a shame that some of this was cut from the fim, and I doubt the movie will be a given a 'Director's Cut' DVD treatment. My only gripe was with Chase Meridan - I again agree with batfan925. After the chemistry between Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns the Bruce/Chase relationship just doesn't seem to work. |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Hush86
Posts: 9
Joined: 11.08.08
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 04:19 |
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Like a lot of you, I was in love with this movie as a kid. I saw it three times in the theatres( I've seen TDK four times) and bought it on video as soon as I could. Now I find it a little hard to watch. Parts of it are really corny. Parts of it are done right but the overall feel of the movie is a little too over the top. While nowhere near as disgusting as Batman and Robin, it's clearly the beginning of a downward spiral. I didn't think Kilmer was bad. He was a little bland but he's too good of an actor to completely suck. Carrey was good, not as the Riddler,but as being Carrey. While not loyal to the character, it's still a strong, entertaining performance. As far as unloyal portrayals goes, Tommy Lee Jones is a far bigger offender. Two-Face should never be this cartooney . The Joker can be portrayed that way(1989) and it still work because, let's face it, he's a clown. It's not the best way to go but it can still be watchable, even great. Two Face is a tragic, tortured madman. I love Jones as much as anyone. He's an excellent actor but something went awry with this performance. I don't care for Chris O Donnell but he's watchable. Nicole Kidman's part never did anything for me at all. In closing, it's a very flawed but still worth breaking out every now and again. |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Matches Malone
Posts: 79
Location: Gotham
Joined: 10.05.08
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 11:59 |
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Forever is very watchable for me because it reminded me of when I was a kid. Two-Face is not like that at all but its hard for me not to like the way tommy jones acted. A lot of good one liners from him in this movie. Kilmer as batman? Was he even in the movie? He seems to dissapear and not in a good way. Like batman is almost a foot note in the film. I dont think he did the character any justice but hell it was better than clooney. Robin once again is why Bale wont touch a batman movie with him in it. I didnt like him in forever nor in Batman & Robin. Its a good movie by all means great to watch when you havent seen it for a while but nothing to watch everyday.
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Phil
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 12:55 |
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robin was unbearable in batman & robin. he was okay in forever. by the time it got to b&r, it made no sense for an adult dick grayson to be living in wayne manor, and it made me cringe every time robin was complaining to batman about something. gosh, it disgraces robin like no other.
but all in all, i actually liked batman forever. i'm thinking about watching it in black and white to see if it seems any better. lol. the lighting in the movie is a little too much. and i wish i could change the soundtrack. the batman theme itself is pretty cool, but everything else sounds like a bugs bunny cartoon.
i'm not sure if i'm by myself here, but for some odd reason, when i think batman forever, i think of batman swinging around town while hanging on to the chain hooked onto the helicopter. when i saw bats doing that in begins with the train, i thought, is this batman forever? and he did it again in the dark knight with the plane. lol.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Razhwurz
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 14:52 |
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I think the drama behind Robin was the best thing about Forever, even though he wasn't particularly well acted. The things like making Robin a heroic symbol of his, and Batman's reluctance to bring him down the same path he's gone down are still pretty interesting...
The big oops with that plot was Bruce was a little to reluctant to train him. Of course he'd be reluctant at first, but he's smart enough to know Robin needs guidance.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Batkilt
Posts: 68
Joined: 10.06.08
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 15:01 |
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To me, Batman Forever shows how important it is for any actor who would portray Robin in future to be under 21. By the time Batman & Robin came out O'Donnell just looked obviously too old, and a lot of the plot of dissention between Batman and Robin seemed like a teenager rebelling against his parents.
I'd also say that this film shows that if handled right that Robin can be a welcome addition to any Batman series. As Razhwurz's post says above, Robin being a heroic symbol, and one of hope for Batman to me is what's so important about the character.
It's a pity Batman Forever was followed by Batman and Robin. I think Robin's still perceived by most of the mainstream audience - and some "hardcore", for lack of a better word, Batman fans - as Robin from the camp Adam West era. The way the character was handled in this film helped to shed that off a bit, and then B % R came along and...well, we all know what happened! |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
real-dark-knight
Posts: 726
Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey
Joined: 28.07.06
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| Posted on 12-08-2008 16:12 |
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It must've been a couple of years ago now (more than that even), HMV or somewhere we're selling all 4 (89 thru B&R) films in their double disc special edition versions quite cheaply.
I bought them all (again - probably for the extras). I remember I gave the old ones to my nephew (who would've been about 5 at the time).
Literally - until a couple of days before the Dark Knight came out, I'd not even opened this. I think that says it all. When I finally did, I watched it for about 10 minutes before I gave up and put something else on.
For the record - I've still not opened Batman and Robin.
Incidentally - my nephew liked this one best. |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Buckeye Bat
Posts: 442
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Joined: 15.08.09
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| Posted on 18-09-2009 18:35 |
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Pros of Batman Forever: I loved the way the costumes of the Flying Graysons look ALOT like the Robin outfit from the TV show and the early days of the comic books...Nicole Kidman was good...Riddler's suit with the bowler hat again a tip of the cap to the TV show.
Cons of Batman Forever: Val Kilmer just didn't seem like a good Batman...Jim Carrey was TOO over the top...Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face, they should have tried to get Billy Dee Williams back....the Bat vehicles were just wrong...TOO MUCH NEON...Having the villians invade the Batcave.
'It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me-BATMAN (Batman Begins) |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
DiscowingCanon84
Posts: 40
Location: Earth
Joined: 03.11.07
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| Posted on 01-06-2010 20:15 |
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This has probably been corrected but @Gothamite Tommy Lee Jones did play two face. I personally really liked this movie, Robin was cool. The costume at the end was awesome and yeah that's it |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
matt the bat webb
Posts: 348
Location: lorain ohio!
Joined: 02.11.07
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| Posted on 01-06-2010 23:24 |
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ok well what can i say about this film......kilmer did a good job as batman robin shouldnt be an adult, no point of adopthing him, and odonelle is a horid actor. ridller and face finding the cave was poo, and why is the doctor the only charicter in history to use the signal to get batman off guard a villian couldnt have done this?
the greatest victorys are won with your mind, then your body |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Phil
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 02-06-2010 04:15 |
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i thought batman forever was fun to watch, it's really not on the same level as batman & robin. it's waaaay better. if you can get past the neon lights and nipples, it's actually pretty good. as for robin being a little older...i think he could have passed as a 17 year old, so that didn't bother me. by the time it got to batman & robin though, o'donnell got too old to be still living at the manor.
but yeah, that whole "robin sucks" idea is dying out slowly but surely. teen titans animated did a number to a lot of kids - wait for the next generation, and robin won't be seen as the useless camp boy past generations did. with this new young justice animated series, damien as robin, tim drake as red robin...there are just too many cool robin characters to think he's not cool.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: BATMAN FOREVER: Pros and Cons |
Razhwurz
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
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| Posted on 27-06-2010 14:11 |
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I just watched this movie last night on HDNet Movies, and some new things occured to me.
Pros:
Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne is WAY underrated. The scenes with Kilmer as Bruce are probably the best in the movie.
Even in a post Begins world, Val Kilmer looked pretty badass as Batman. The Panther Suit had an AWESOME cowl. If only it didn't have nipples lol.
Batman was even more mobile in this movie then I remember. He pulled a lot of cool moves in the fights dispite his constricting outfit.
This movie has some of the best fight scenes of any pre-Begins Batman film.
Even after 15 years of growing up, Riddler still has some hilarious lines.
Nicole Kidman is a lot better in the movie then I remember. She has three really bad scenes ("Hot enterence", "The Bat Signal's not a beeper", and her dialogue in the circus scene") But the rest are solid. Particularly scenes in her office with Bruce.
Chase and Bruce had very natural chemistry together.
Hate to be a little pervy, but I'd forgotten how sexy the scene with Kidman sleeping in her apartment was. Yes, the dialogue is very cheesy. But her greating Batman wearing nothing but a bedsheet... That was kinda hot. In fact, Kidman was kinda hot all around for this movie.
U2's song in the credits is awesome.
Cons:
Kilmer seemed very ackward as Batman. Kinda fidgity, and not very focused when he spoke.
Two-face is even campier than I remember. As is the Riddler. I had forgotten exactly how much Carrey over acted in this movie. Again, it goes along with the Gorshun Riddler, but still it's distracting.
Watching the movie in HD for the first time, it's very obvious that O'Donnell is a 30 year old playing an 18 year old.
The guard/hostage from the bank scene. Ugggggh. TERRIBLE acting.
Gossip Gerty. I know she is the late Bob Kane's wife, but UGH.
Sugar and Spice. Why exactly were they in this movie?
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 27-06-2010 14:15 |
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