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How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 12-07-2008 16:56
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I've been reading through the Ideal Cast thread and been intrigued and surprised by some of the choices, but that thread along with some comments by Chris Nolan himself made me wonder how some of the rogues would be portrayed in the 'universe' of Batman Begins/The Dark Knight, so to speak.

Nolan has stated he'd find The Penguin character hard to portray with the realistic approach he's going for with these films. That surprised me and I've read a few ideas on the forum that would, in my opinion, work for him. Some of his different comic book origins could be used to explain his nickname of The Penguin and why he seems to hold birds in high regard. I was actually surprised mostly because I think there's potential for him to be more of a threat to Batman than perhaps some might suspect, and did wonder if the way the character was presented in Batman Returns has influenced Nolan's thoughts there.

Regardless, my point was: how would you utilise your favourite rogues in the current series? For example, Poison Ivy. I'd like to see the idea of her as an eco-terrorist being explored, and some of her background could make for a good origin for any movie character, but how would you handle the more 'unrealistic' aspects of her character? Or any other character for that matter.

Or do you agree with the point raised by Frank Miller and others that too much realism kills the fun of comic books?

Apologies if this is too similar to other threads. I've had a quick scroll through the board and couldn't spot it.
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 12-07-2008 17:44
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I was just thinking about this the other day.

If you read the Gotham Knight Novel, the way they approached Killer Croc, I could totally see in a live action Nolan movie.

Does realism kill a movie? Well, look at Begins, they tried to make it as real as possible but honestly.. it's not.

They even talk about the penguin in Gotham Knight. Said he has a nose like a beak.. so make him short and fat with a long nose.

Ivy could be done real good. A Sexy red head with a lipstick that she put oin to seduce men.

Even Mr. Freeze can be done and yet be realistic.

You can do any character to meet your needs. I mean, really.. how realistic is it that a man would walk around with his face half burt off?



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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 13-07-2008 00:22
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Just about all of the major Batman rogues could be applied in a realistic fashion in the Nolanverse the way they were with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Killer Croc would be perfect for the next film.

Too much absurdity kills a comic book movie, not too much realism. Enough realism makes the comic book films that much better and that much more believable. Batman Begins proved that by showing how Bruce Wayne became Batman and where he got the hardware he needed to become Batman.


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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 13-07-2008 00:47
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The problem I find most people have when fingering characters as "un-Nolanable" is that they like to use Nolan's realism as possibility, when in reality Nolan's portrayal of Batman is about plausibilty.

Mr. Freeze could work, if they can legitimately make us believe in cryogenics then just about every single aspect of the character is plausible.

If I had Ivy in a Nolan movie I'd have her be a botanist/chemist/ecoterroist who uses chemicals to seduce and kill men; unfortunatley that would make her threat level pretty low and she wouldn't be able to carry a movie as a lead. She could play a supporting role perhaps?

Croc, big guy with scaley, armour like skin; just make him look less like a crocodile and more like a deformed man.

Penguin, I don't think Nolan ever said he thought he'd be a tough character to do realistically, it's just he's no nuts about the character. Honestly, how do you make a short, fat guy with a bottlenose seem threatening?

I think the biggest problem isn't if the characters can be applied to the movies, it's just how do you base an entire movie on a character like Killer Croc?


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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 13-07-2008 01:22
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I wrote an OPed peice that I plan on posting tomorrow about that same thing. TDK looks to be THE Comic book movie, the one that raises the standards.. so how is that topped?

Find out what I think tomorrow big grin

But really.. anyhting can be made to look "REAL" They made us belive in everything in Begins is "real" it's not. It just looks real.

They are doing Two-Face.. they could do a Clayface, Kroc, even Man-Bat. You just have to approach it right.

The plan fact is, Batman has the best Rogues Gallery, but you take away all the "Unrealistic" ones, who do you have?

Riddler
Catwoman
Ivy
Harley
Penguin

Though, there is also the Mad Hatter.. again not a big hitter, but if done right, they can have 3 or 4 in the movie.

How about The Reaper? For those who don't know who the reaper is..

Judson Caspian was a socialite by day, and an ultra-violent vigilante by night. After losing his wife to a robber in the streets, an event similiar to the one Bruce Wayne experienced as a child, he became The Reaper, who prowled Gotham City during the 1950s, murdering juvenile delinquents in vicious manners by impaling them with his scythe weapons. His activities prompted Alan Scott to briefly emerge from retirement to confront him as Green Lantern. Vastly overpowered during an encounter between the two, the Reaper lashed out in a panic with his nunchaku and, by happenstance, struck Green Lantern, whose force-field was vulnerable to the wooden weapons. The Reaper subsequently moved to Europe due to unknown reasons.

After Caspian returned from Europe he began his rampage as the Reaper once again, which brought him into conflict with Batman. It was during this time that Batman's actions were questioned by Gotham when he was compared to the Reaper himself. After losing and receiving several injuries from the Reaper during their initial encounter, Batman was forced to join forces with Joe Chill, the man who killed his parents. Having been assigned by the Gotham mob to kill both the Reaper and Batman when he had finished, Chill began to hunt the Reaper alongside Batman. After revealing his identity to Chill before putting the gun to his head, Batman's revenge was taken from him by the Reaper, who shot Chill in the head. After engaging in a fierce battle with Batman and being reduced to hanging from the scaffolding of a building under construction, the Reaper was finally unmasked. Batman, who had intended who marry Caspian's daughter, Rachel, was shocked, and held out his hand to help the Reaper. However, Caspian, who knew what charges he was up against, told Batman that he would make a fine successor, and let go of the ledge, plummeting to his death. After being exposed as the Reaper, Caspian was given a funeral funded by Bruce Wayne, who stated that he deserved a peaceful death, even if he was a killer. Rachel, who was unaware of her father's activities, became a nun after Caspian's life as the Reaper was exposed.


Now that would rock, Batman would have to clear his name.. take down the Reaper, AND maybe deal with Riddelr and Catwoman..

It keeps the realstic tone, yet gives you a great movie.



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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 13-07-2008 07:01
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Razhwurz wrote:
The problem I find most people have when fingering characters as "un-Nolanable" is that they like to use Nolan's realism as possibility, when in reality Nolan's portrayal of Batman is about plausibilty.


I see your point here and I agree totally.

Razhwurz wrote:Mr. Freeze could work, if they can legitimately make us believe in cryogenics then just about every single aspect of the character is plausible.

If I had Ivy in a Nolan movie I'd have her be a botanist/chemist/ecoterroist who uses chemicals to seduce and kill men; unfortunatley that would make her threat level pretty low and she wouldn't be able to carry a movie as a lead. She could play a supporting role perhaps?


These two characters in particular are what inspired me to post the thread. With Ivy I thought of her in the 'Nolanverse' as an eco-terrorist with chemicals developed from deadly plants and toxins - her lipstick for example.

I'm not sure how important Dr. Woodrue would be though. I had thought that perhaps his experimentation on Ivy is slowly killing her, which Batman discovers, which leaves him with a race against time to try to save her, which also means preventing her from killing Woodrue. (Alright, it's hardly a screenplay but you get the idea!)


Razhwurz wrote:Croc, big guy with scaley, armour like skin; just make him look less like a crocodile and more like a deformed man.


I think his believability really comes down to how they make the character look. I mean, the condition he suffers from is genuine albiet exagerrated for purposes of the character, but that's one rogue that I think could be pulled off.

Razhwurz wrote:Penguin, I don't think Nolan ever said he thought he'd be a tough character to do realistically, it's just he's no nuts about the character. Honestly, how do you make a short, fat guy with a bottlenose seem threatening?


Well....I'd take him having a nose like a beak and a pecuilar walk - either he's had it from birth or it is the result of some freak/tragic accident - and have him as a British arms dealer. Perhaps he wouldn't seem physically threatening, like The Scarecrow, but he's part of a greater picture?

I guess thinking about it more I can see where Nolan's coming from, but I still think he can be done and done well.


Chris wrote:
Though, there is also the Mad Hatter.. again not a big hitter, but if done right, they can have 3 or 4 in the movie.


I'd like to see him on screen based on A Serious House On Serious Earth. I think that interpretation of the character could be a foe worthy enough of a movie, I guess it just depends on whether or not any director/studio would feel comfortable putting him in one.
Edited by Batkilt on 13-07-2008 07:02
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 13-07-2008 11:54
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Why so serious? With 'The Dark Knight', superhero movies take a flying leap toward maturity

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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 13:01
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i think a really interesting take on the penguin could be to switch the focus of what is normally penguin type fare. for one, think of hitchcock's 'the birds'. have penguin obsess over birds. he could have a mansion with a large aviary compound filled with man-eating birds and exotic beasts. i think lavish when i think penguin. screw this igloo shaped nightclub bullcrap. think more dionysian, more decadent. napoleon comes to mind, as does nero. a very short, limp-walking, ANGRY little man with a chip FIRMLY placed on shoulder. just imagine the little lord fauntleroy-like tantrums he could have. i mean, he could even get SCARFACE-ish with his gun umbrellas at times. this little guy should be constantly smoking the finest imported cigars, drinking the finest wines, wearing the finest fur coats and gold rings, with expensive women lying around on silks. i imagine him to be equal in terms of resources as bruce wayne. so that makes him even MORE intriguing, as he plays the moral opposite. whereas bruce uses a playboy image as a fascade, penguin is a greedy, cruel, sadistic, afluent man with a grudge. now also imagine that man is HEAVILY involved in supplying hardcore weapons to the organized crime outfits in gotham. imagine what these gangs could then DO to the police force. escalation. that's where nolan is going, right? escalation. now, i'm not saying penguin alone could carry a batman film.... but i would argue this point with nolan if he thinks that the penguin couldn't be a very interesting and sound part of his take on the batman universe.
Edited by tibbar on 14-07-2008 13:05
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 13:56
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I actually really like that idea, Tibbar. In fact, I kinda hope it's the next Batman movie.
I'm sorry, but I just don't think the Riddler's that great of a foe, and unless he's done right, he's kind of a useless villain.
But like tibbar said, the next movie could have the Penguin selling arms to the remaining gangs in Gotham. The gangs are, of course, still in their war for control of the city. The main mob bosses could be Black Mask, and Two Face, who, when you really think about it, are actually pretty similar.
Also, I think Catwoman could be introduced in the movie as a new love interest. This would cause a problem for Bruce/Batman, because he has to make a choice of bringing her to justice, or letting her go.
Heck, you could even throw Killer Croc or Bane in there as a bodyguard to Black Mask or Two Face, but have them in a minor role, so as not to overload the story.
Personally, I think it could work.

Two Face/Black Mask (mob bosses)
Penguin (somewhat primary villain)
Bane/Killer Croc (bodyguard)
Catwoman (love interest/vigilante)

scarecrow


Dr. Crane isn't here right now, but if you'd like to make an appointment....
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 14:03
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So here's a new question that kinda spawns from the main point of this thread; who in Batman's rogues gallery could be a character strong enough to not only hold up a movie and pose a serious threat to Batman and the people of Gotham, but be interesting enough to follow up Joker without seeming anti-climactic; and of course continue the theme of escalation and "the rise of the freaks"?


Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!

R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 14-07-2008 14:05
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 14:23
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We have over 500 bios for villains.. I bet we could have an obsecure baddie and have a great movie!



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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 16:17
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I think you're right, Chris!

I quite like tibbar's idea for The Penguin, but as for the question posed by Razhwurz? Off the top of my head it's either The Black Mask or Two-Face for me. Having said that something pulls me towards a story involving The Black Mask and Catwoman.

I'm going to give this some thought and come back with some sort of scenario.
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 16:51
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I think Black Mask is one of the better choices; Two-face from the sound of things is going to be a vigilante in TDK, so I can't imagine him going from that to a horrific bad guy.

One big worry, though, is that Black Mask, Two-face and, even Penguin, are all part of organized crime. After a whole movie about how the freaks are taking control of the city, would it be backwards to have a mafioso baddie? Of course, we could have it like Dark Victory, one mob-bossish rogue hiring the entire Rogues Guild to take on Bats.


Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!

R.I.P. Heath
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 17:18
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Razhwurz wrote: un-Nolanable


LOL! Sorry, that word just struck me as funny.

Anyways, um...I think they could make just about any character fit pretty well. The Peguin doesn't really seem right, I'm not a fan of him anyways, but I could be proven wrong. A Catwoman story would probably be pretty interesting. Who knows.
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 18:01
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Black Mask fits both bills, Organized Crime AND Freaks...



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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 14-07-2008 18:07
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this is gonna sound way far out, but... i think dr. destiny would ROCK as a villain on screen.
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 15-07-2008 02:33
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I'd like to see the Monk. The Who?

Pre Crisis:
The Monk is one of the earliest significant villains of the series, his battle with Batman being one of the first multi-part Batman adventures. The Monk was a vampire who wore a red, monk-like outfit, with a hood that bore a skull and crossbones. He had an assistant named Dala who lured Batman to his lair and convinced him to use Bruce Wayne's fiancee Julie Madison as a way of hurting the Batman.

The Monk placed Julie in a hypnotic trance using his vampiric abilities and used her as bait for the Dark Knight. After rescuing Julie, Batman killed the Monk and Dala by shooting them with silver bullets as they lay in their coffins. This action is notable as it displays a ruthlessness and affinity for firearms that Batman would abandon in later stories as the series drifted away from its pulp adventure roots. The tale of the Monk is also remembered for its moody visuals and use of the supernatural, other elements that were downplayed as the Batman series continued to evolve.




Batman himself was transformed into a vampire by the Monk but was eventually cured by a serum administered by a priest/exorcist named Father Green. At the conclusion of the tale, Green departed with the captive Monk and Dala, hinting that he had been pursuing them for a very long time indeed.

Batman now has The Monks red hood displayed as a trophy in the Batcave.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post Crisis:
The Monk is named Niccolai and is the vampiric leader of a cult called The Brotherhood, based in an abandoned castle/manor house on the outskirts of Gotham City. His followers, among whom is the gothic Dala, feed upon the blood of captured victims. Only the most devoted acolytes are transformed into true creatures of the night however. Julie Madison is turned into the Monk's pawn, as she is lured to the castle by Dala under the guise of the Monk being some sort of self-help guru. At present, the current origin of the character has not been revealed. It should be noted that Dala is not a vampire, but she hopes to become one so she can serve at Niccolai's right hand.


Now, of course in Nolans world, he would not be a "real" vampire, BUT, there are plenty of people who look like one and even think they are one.

I think it would make for a great story...



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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 15-07-2008 19:06
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I made my own origin of Riddler where hes some teenager that tried to kill himself and the cops after a situation where he asked for money or he would bomb a place and he survived after the bomb and before this when he called Gotham Police Department he asked Jim Gordon in a riddle and when Jim told the media that they started calling him the Riddler and in the hospital he made a burn mark of a question symbol on his chest since they called him the Riddler, he used it as a permenate scar. Alot of ands* riddler2


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[Alfred Pennyworth]

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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 15-09-2008 14:46
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BUMP!

I've been thinking of how I would like to adapt The Mad Hatter to fit the way Batman Begins and The Dark Knight have went so far. Here's what I got:

Jervis Tetch is a scientist working on a computer microchip that effects human behaviour, with the aim being for these chips to be used to prevent pedophiles from feeling or acting upon their urges. Just like many cops working with child pornorgraphy images in real life he becomes desensitized to what he sees but seeks out help - from Dr. Jonathan Crane. Crane taps into Tetch's fear and experiments on his mind, ultimately twisting it until Tetch believes Gotham really is Wonderland and he's The Mad Hatter.

He would kidnap young girls, but there'd be no sexual motive. He'd instead be seeking out 'Alice'. (Obviously he'd have had a childhood obsession with Alice's Adventures In Wonderland.)

I've tried to incorporate some of the sinister/pedophilic aspects of the character post A Serious House On Serious Earth without actually making him a fully fledged pedophile and in a sense having some of the twisted innocence of Wonderland itself. That and I wanted the mind control to fit the other aspects of his character.
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RE: How would you handle the Rogues Gallery? - Posted on 17-09-2008 02:23
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all of these choices are great but I must say that Id love to see Hush and Catwoman with a hint at firefly or Ras coming back and not actually being killed to show that he is Imortal.


the greatest victorys are won with your mind, then your body
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