| Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 24-02-2007 17:54 |
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gothamite begins
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Fans considered tim burtons "Batman" the way batman is supposed to be but batman returns was considered two dark and batman kills his opponents like the red triangle strongman he strapped the bomb to, this apparently was a big no-no with some fans. Whoever thinks this way clearly does not know batman as well as they think they do. In the golden age of comics before Robin Batman killed people, yes this might come as a shock to some people but it's true and incorperating death into the movies made the situations more realistic, as no one would believe he could just cart the villians off to jail with the film's dark film noir tone. The golden age Batman killed only if he thought it was justified and after he took in a sidekick he stopped the killing to what many fans believe because he felt the boy should not grow up to believe this is justice. I like to think he really didn't kill anyone (besides that joker thug batman threw off the belfry it was ethier him or batman's) and that their deaths were accidents and not his fault.
In the first film thugs died during the last big fight scene one thug plummets to his death when he leaps onto some old floorboards bye-bye this clearly is not bats's fault but the clumsy thug joker enlisted. Then there is the joker himself who also plummets to his untimely demise when Batman shoots a bola tying the joker to a stone gargoyle any fan can tell you what happened next. Once again Batman is not at fault he was just trying to keep his foe from escaping the people at fault were the helicopter pilots who could not see that their boss had a 500 lb. gargoyle on his leg and land him back on the roof for safety. Many more deaths might have occured I just can't remember them at this time.
Batman Returns had deaths of the strongman and the penguin being the major two that involved Batman's hand. Although I can't say strongman's death wasn't Batman's fault the Penguin was not. Batman just pushed a button that destroyed the zoo and released some bats who attacked ol pengy and sent him to his wattery grave. Batman just sent bats to distract him how would he know that penguin would lose his balance and fall into the penguin habitat below. So if anything batman should be guilty of property damage and fined we all know he good for it.
In Conclusion,
Batman in my opinion did not go too far as to kill his enemies unless he thought it was the only way. Joker did not enlist intelligent people in his gang which led to their deaths and his, and Penquin could have avoided his by not being so damn fat then maybe he would have cheated death.
Edited by gothamite begins on 03-03-2007 19:53 |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 24-02-2007 18:30 |
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Razhwurz
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Okay... First, the strongman died. That was dynamite strapped to his chest, if you don't know, Dynamite is what they use to destroy rock; and considering Batman's hand survived punching the dude, he is definitly pudding right now.
You also forgot to list the time he set a man on fire, which is pretty much the most evil thing you can do; if you do survive being set on fire, your probably going to die from wound infection, and even if you survive that you have to indore rehabilitaion for the rest of your life. So that's pretty much the worst thing you can do to a person.
Since Batman smiled when he intentionally killed the strongman, and since the batmobile is equiped with batarang launchers and other non-leathal weapon's; I'd say he enjoyed their deaths and could have avoided them.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 24-02-2007 18:43 |
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gothamite begins
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Razhwurz wrote:You also forgot to list the time he set a man on fire, which is pretty much the most evil thing you can do; if you do survive being set on fire, your probably going to die from wound infection, and even if you survive that you have to indore rehabilitaion for the rest of your life. So that's pretty much the worst thing you can do to a person.
Since Batman smiled when he intentionally killed the strongman
Thanks for pointing that out about the fire breathing clown just remembered him. Batman smiled before intentionally killing strongman not because he enjoyed killing him but for shutting him up about how Bat's could not hurt him. Watch it again you'll see my point |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 24-02-2007 21:21 |
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Razhwurz
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Dude, he shoved Dynamite into the man's pants! The Batman in the comic books, I'm talking about the one who took several bullets to the chest to save a criminal's life, wouldn't smile while killing a man unnecisarily.
Did you know Batman studied martial arts? Jujitsu, the art of using an opponant's weight against them. Kung-fu and karate, the arts of using your arm's and legs as weapons, with devistating acuracy. And Ninjitsu, the art of taking down an aponant iwith a single blow.
Did you know that there is a set of nerves that run strait down the side of you arm? A single, well placed blow to those nerves, and your out cold; no matter how strong you are.
Batman could have taken that guy down in at least a dozen differant ways... And yet he killed him instead. And some how he's not goiing too far for smiling as he does it?
I love Batman Returns, but that doesn't mean I try to pin morality on Batman's decisions. He killed them because he believed that there were no consiquences to doing so.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 24-02-2007 22:35 |
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FlaBat
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I think Tim Burton took some Artistic License in his approach to Batman. His first film Batman was dark and gritty and it stood for years (until Batman Begins) as the best Batman film ever made.
Batman Returns pushed the envelope a little too far, mostly with the Penguin. Overall Batman Returns was way too dark and violent for some in the marketing world. After all how do you market a kids hamburger meal with a Penguin toy when in the film Penguin makes overtly sexual remarks to women and bites a guys nose off?
In both of Burton?s Batman films, we saw Batman as a killer, which we all know is against his own personal code.
Granted we now know Batman?s code of not killing, although like it was mentioned in this Thread before, the original Batman in the comic books of the ?30?s and ?40?s had no problem with killing if he felt it was justified.
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 25-02-2007 14:32 |
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Razhwurz
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First: the killer Batman only appeared in 1939, after a handful of issues they dramatically lightened the character.
Second: gothamite begins' theory mostly applies to the first Batman. With the one gaurd he killed, it was either he went or Bats went; and Batman didn't really have time to show remorse (unlike with strongman).
Of course The Joker's death wasn't nessicary, and those of us who remember the dialogue from the seen will remember Batman saying he'd kill The Joker. So that one was intentional. But remember that Batman didn't show joy or a sense of humour with this death; he was mearly doing what he felt was a nessicary evil.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 25-02-2007 14:34 |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 25-02-2007 16:57 |
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Caleson
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FlaBat wrote:
After all how do you market a kids hamburger meal with a Penguin toy when in the film Penguin makes overtly sexual remarks to women and bites a guys nose off? It worked well for me at six years old.  Although, my mom didn't like McDonald's, so I had to buy the Happy Meal toys at flea markets years later. I actually remember at five years old watching Total Recall and other violent films with my family, but I see your point. I knew that he didn't kill in BTAS, but the violence didn't seem to bother me in the Burton films. I guess it just made sense to fight fire with fire and engulf a man in flames, if you don't think much beyond that. I even reinacted it with my Kenner Batmissle.
By the way, would a guy's nose really shoot blood like that while being bitten?
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 25-02-2007 17:26 |
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Razhwurz
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I once got bit in the nose by a cat; no blood at all... But then again her teeth rivaled pencil erasers in sharpness.
I used to watch Lethal Weapon as a kid... So villance never desturbed me that much; I even went through a stage where I thought Batman should use lethal force. Then Begins reminded me of the Batman I loved as a child; and I once again became a Batnerd!
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 26-02-2007 10:10 |
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Darknight
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The Burton/Schumacher movies seemed to take everything to an extreme. Burton made things violent and serious. Schumacher went the complete opposite direction and went campy and attempted humor.
A lot of people justify Batman killing by referencing his first year of appearances. I tend to take in a broader spectrum of Batman in my ideal vision, but I also say to each his own.
Back to the main point of the thread, using the Batman from the comics as the standard Batman went too far in the movies. Batman since 1940 does not kill. It is a flimsy arguement to justify killing by referencing the way Batman was 50 years earlier.
There is room, however, for it to be said that the movies, beginning with Batman '89 were progressing through the same evolution as the comic Batman did. Batman and Batman Returns were the first year, and Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were the years after Robin appeared. Then Batman Begins is the modern times with a mixture of humor and seriousness.
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 03-03-2007 20:02 |
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gothamite begins
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I recently edited this thread and removed anything dealing with the strongman's death being accedental and put that he might have been in the ICU this was just humor I didn't mean it but apparently some people reacted in the negative. I thought if I put humor into the long thread it might make reading it more enjoyable but some people didn't see it that way and for that I'm sorry
Edited by gothamite begins on 03-03-2007 20:10 |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 04-03-2007 06:40 |
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Catfan
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Having grown up with the 1966 series, I initially found the 1989 and 1992 movies a real shock. While I have grown to understand the character a LOT better?and I had better, since I will play him in my fan film?the idea of Batman killing others is not a good one. He is not James Bond, who's licenced to kill.
However, I never really cared for camp, so Joel Schumacher did not do well by the Caped Crusader, either. I like what Chris Nolan did.
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 05-08-2007 16:07 |
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brucebatman3
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Well, I loved Batman and is tied for favorite with Batman Forever (But I wished they showed Batman's full origin).
But Batman Returns I guess did go a little too far with the killing.
But then again don't all superhero movies kill off the villains in the end?
"I am vengeance, I am the night... I am Batman!!" |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 25-08-2007 09:25 |
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kryptosdaddy
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Batman killed in the movies for one simple reason, $. None of those movies were created just for the fanboys (and girls) but for the regular folks who really knew nothing about the character, the general audience. Look at the era. Batman was released in 1989- the final movie Batman and Robin 1997, go look around yourself and see what else came out before and during this era- this was the action movies heyday-big explosions, death and sex ruled the sreens through the 80's and 90's.
And these movies were no different.
Of course Bale also potrayed a killer Batman as well. Death seemed to find it's way into this movie but at the same time he was still trying to find a moral way to solve these confrontations. I think in The Dark Knight, we will see a different Batman than what we have seen before. 
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 26-08-2007 19:07 |
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Phil
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i dont think the movie was really targeted on anyone. i think batman returns just showed tim burton's version of batman.
as for TDK, i hope he doesnt kill anyone. i'm not a fan of killing myself.
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 26-08-2007 21:34 |
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BATFANATIC
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You know Batman killed all the time in the comics while Bob Kane was writing 1939-1941 Batman killed over 15 people. Batman killed until DC comics said Batman can kill no more, so I think its ok.
   
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 14-09-2007 16:39 |
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BornAgainBatman
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Whats the Big deal?
Movies and comics never agree 100%.
i really enjoy Tims Batman 1 & 2 and they are one of the best superhero movies DC put out.
Just bring on the Dark Knight because this will be the best! |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 05-11-2007 12:31 |
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matt the bat webb
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Of course Bale also potrayed a killer Batman as well. Death seemed to find it's way into this movie but at the same time he was still trying to find a moral way to solve these confrontations. I think in The Dark Knight, we will see a different Batman than what we have seen before.
your forgeting Ras is immortal as long as he can get to a pit. (i was dissapointed this was not mentioned in the movie) so you really have no idea if he died in the end. also the men that were killed in the training section of the movie were not (to my recolection) killed on purpose.
the greatest victorys are won with your mind, then your body |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 05-11-2007 15:12 |
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Razhwurz
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Actually, the resone his immortality wasn't mentioned was because it isn't in the movie. Ra's died, he's not coming back.
And Bruce didn't kill him, he just didn't save him, there's a big differance there.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Did Batman go too far?!! -
Posted on 06-11-2007 23:59 |
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matt the bat webb
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sorry i re-viewed the movie after i posted this and your right it was not mentioned at all but i still belive it should have been mentioned in some way so that the possibility of a returning villan would be there. but im not saying bruce killed him im only trying to show that bruce dosent just kill because he can justify it or because he likes to he kills if its the only way 2 resolve a situation.
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