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All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 03:11 |
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First off, this should be stickied.
Ok then, this thread is for the All Star Batman line. Discuss Miller's what if to his own Year Two here. Please post reviews and pictures if you have any here as well.
Also, let's also discuss All Star Superman as well. But Batman first.
Discuss!!!!!
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 09:28 |
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I didn't like it. I hope that it improves, but it doesn't seem like there was much effort put in the writing. The art was good, but we only got one page of Batman.
There was a 3 or 4 page scene of Vicki Vale getting dressed. Great eye candy, and Lee hasn't drawn very many women in a while, but he has definitely not lost his touch.
The thought boxes were repeated over and over again, which just grated on my nerves. Maybe Miller thinks that comic readers only read every 4th or 5th thing printed in the comic instead of all of it.
If you look into it enough it looks like Bruce had the Grayson's killed. He has been watching "this brat" for a while. Then he recruits him to be a soldier in his war. I want the first panel in issue two to be Dick Grayson telling Batman to stick it, and that he doesn't want to be a soldier.
Dark Knight Returns and DK2 Batman had this attitude because of the toll that the years have had on him. He is a grumpy old man. It is bad enough to have this Batman in the main titles, but this is supposed to be an early years Batman. Could we have him just a tad less bitter?
We had a talkback thread for this on the old forum, but there wasn't much demand once the switch came because issue two isn't solicited until September 14th:
Issue 3, October 26th
that is probably not the cover art that will be used. DC had some pencils for issue 2's cover for a while.
Issue 4 isn't listed in the November solicitations. Not the best of signs. However, All Star Superman #1 is listed:
We will start a talkback thread in the Superman board when it is released on November 16th. Man, they are holding that one back a long time.
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Phil
Vigilante
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 12:16 |
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that superman looks reeaally bright, while batmans reeeaally dark.
i read the first issue n liked it. but maybe cuz i liked the art so much. maybe i shud read it agen. are u serious though? it was bruce's fault that his parents died?? that sucks...but maybe this story cud be used for the batman begins series. cuz it seems like a dark story.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 12:23 |
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how was it bruces fault?
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 13:13 |
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I didn't mean to say that it is Bruce's fault. I meant that the issue leaves things in a way that that is a possibility. Sorry for any confusion.
Here is the case I see. Bruce has been watching him for a while. Knows his abilities. He apparently is scouting for recruits for the war. Why not have the Graysons killed so that Dick will join Batman? The loss of his parents will motivate him to joining Bruce. The police abduct Dick and take him to a hidden place to "convince" him that his parents weren't murdered. Batman has already set up sonics that attract bats to the area to get the cops to leave. Pretty convenient. It just seemed a little wierd.
Granted, if Vicki knew where the police were taking him then Batman would for sure. I doubt that the story will go in that direction, but the whole thing just doesn't set right.
What I always liked about the original story is that Bruce sympathized with the loss, and offered to take him in. Then offered the boy the chance to take down his parents' killer. None of this recruiting business, that just makes Batman to be some kind of military commander instead of someone who has compassion for someone that has experienced what Bruce had to go through.
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Caleson
Dark Knight
Posts: 1631
Location: Rockville, IA
Joined: 24.06.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 13:39 |
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Although the concept of Batman killing the Graysons goes far beyond Batman's moral on several levels, it is an interesting thought. Either Darknight's highlighting some pretty tangible speculation that will actually be explored as the story progresses, or it really was just too much of a coincidence due to poor writing.
I realize we need some changes here and there to have fun with rereading an old story or origin, but I couldn't help but dislike how they're suddenly blown away in front of everyone. They're acrobats, and that was used to the mob's advantage when they cut the wires in the original version. And Dick proclaiming that he saw who killed them made little sense. All three Graysons are facing the same direction, one is shot from behind and the other from the front. Dick makes a reaction after both shots, and as far as the panels illustrate, doesn't seem to see either gunman. And if he did, assuming the gunmen just stood there afterward, you know they'd be in plain site for the entire crowd as well.
And yeah, the story did move just a bit slow, maybe because they felt like spending two whole pages on Vicki Vale going through her entire wardrobe. It gets old after a few panels. Here's hoping the next issue makes up a little bit, the cover art looks awsome.
Edited by Caleson on 16-08-2005 13:50 |
 
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 13:53 |
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that is just plain stupid i agree with darknight. it made more sense when bruce felt sorry for this poor kid and gave him a cause to live on. but now he wanted his parents murdered? and set up a stalker/lunatic scheme to get the kid to join him? thats just dumb
Edited by TheDarkKnight666 on 16-08-2005 13:54 |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Phil
Vigilante
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 14:34 |
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haha. frank miller is so weird. he takes batman being dark and scary to a whole new level. but then agen, maybe he didnt plan on making it seem like bruce wanted dick's parents to die.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 15:00 |
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Mayeb this is a prequel to DKR. Because in DKR, Bats referred Jason as a good solider who honored him. It sounds like a prequel.
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Caleson
Dark Knight
Posts: 1631
Location: Rockville, IA
Joined: 24.06.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 17:08 |
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Nate wrote:
Mayeb this is a prequel to DKR. Because in DKR, Bats referred Jason as a good solider who honored him. It sounds like a prequel. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. DKR and DK2 aren't officially in comic continuity, and neither is this new retelling of Robin's origin. Miller could be trying to connect his future-based stories with this one and bring it full circle.
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 17:17 |
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hmmm makes sense
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Phil
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Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 22:29 |
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wait. but isnt this about dick though? and dick was retarded in DK2. i hope miller doesnt mess up this dick grayson...
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 16-08-2005 22:50 |
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well miller likes making changes to characters...and not for the good
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Phil
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Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 02:13 |
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lol. yea. dick grayson somehow learned how to live thru getting his head cutt off. and u know what? from the beginning of DKR to the end of DK2, the art just kept on getting bad. with the first couple of pages of DKR, it was pretty good, but batman kept on getting fatter and fatter and then later his nose was showing....
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 12:44 |
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Could someone give us a summary or detailed storyline of the book for those who can't get or prefer to wait or a collected edition?
And maybe some scans?
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 13:17 |
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lol i agree with phil the artwork did get kinda sloppy
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
BigDaddy Gotham
Arkham Inmate
Posts: 147
Location: NYC
Joined: 30.06.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 14:28 |
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darkngiht just about summed up how i feel about this book. its nice that they wanna make a book which new readers can get into the flow of rather easily, but if your going to just stick with the basic elements...then u cant go and twist them around too. perhaps the reasn for the darker batman in this prigin story is so that new readers will become familiar with this personality and then easily accept it when they branch out into the other titles...? oddly enough im lookin forward more to the allstar superman which hopefully will be done better.
also to be fair, after only one issue, it is a bit early to tell, lets see how the next issue turns out. -BDGB) |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 15:46 |
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All Star Superman is written by Grant Morrison with art by Frank Quitely. I am not all that big on Quitely's art outside of the New X-Men stuff, but Morrision is great. His run on JLA was really good especially the first arc. I haven't read a lot of Morrison's other stuff, but I expect it to be pretty good.
All Star Batman and Robin: the Boy Wonder #1 (because that is all that we have now) do not read if you are going to read it later.
Vicki Vale goes on a date with Bruce Wayne to the circus. Vicki is a gossip columnist with the newspaper, instead of the hardcore journalist of the main continuity. At the circus they watch the Flying Graysons perform. After the performance ends the Graysons are shot leaving their son Dick an orphan. Dick has seen and can identify his parents' killer. The police take him away trying to convince him that it was all an accident. They take him to a secluded place to really convince him, but he is rescued by Batman who says that Dick has just been drafted into the war.
I don't think that BigDaddy Gotham could write a longer plot summary, and he is one of the most thorough summary people I have seen. That is how weak this first issue was.
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
moonmaster
Gotham’s Newest Citizen
Posts: 24
Joined: 28.07.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 18:54 |
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Phil wrote:
lol. yea. dick grayson somehow learned how to live thru getting his head cutt off. and u know what? from the beginning of DKR to the end of DK2, the art just kept on getting bad. with the first couple of pages of DKR, it was pretty good, but batman kept on getting fatter and fatter and then later his nose was showing....
I'm a huuuuuuggge fan of Miller and I get annoyed when people say his art in DKR was bad. I believe that the point of making Batman seem fatter and more beaten down as the book went on was to show him deteriorating mentally and physically. When he starts out in Issue 1 he's the Batman we all know and love: muscular and in incredible shape. But as the book goes on he's put through more and more hell and he starts to let his age get to him. In Issue 1 he's talking about how he feels like he's 20 again and he certainly looks it, but by Issue 4 he's calling himself a stupid old man. You'd be in badshape too if you were beaten, shot and stabbed and then forced to escape from a heavily armed SWAT team. The change was totally intentional. Miller's great at writing and pencilling stories with a lot of raw, violent emotion.
As for AS Batman and Robin, the first issue was a bit boring but I think it can definitely pick up from here. And as for Lee's art I've said it before: I think he's very overrated. Though I did enjoy the last page. Lee seems to have made his Batman in the book veeeerrry Miller-ish.
And btw, All Star Superman is going to be great. Grant Morisson is one of my favorite writers and this looks like one of the funnest things he's ever done. And you should see some of Frank Quitely's Clark Kent/Superman comparison sketches. He's possibly the first artist to use body language to make Superman and Clark Kent actually look different and make it seem perfectly reasonable that no one would guess that there the same person.
NEXTWAVE:
Healing America by beating people up.
www.Ultimate Central.com |
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 17-08-2005 22:49 |
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moonmaster wrote:
And btw, All Star Superman is going to be great. Grant Morisson is one of my favorite writers and this looks like one of the funnest things he's ever done. And you should see some of Frank Quitely's Clark Kent/Superman comparison sketches. He's possibly the first artist to use body language to make Superman and Clark Kent actually look different and make it seem perfectly reasonable that no one would guess that there the same person.
As opposed to just saying that Clark slumps his shoulders and doesn't stand the way Superman does. That is what the writers have been saying ever since Man of Steel by Jon Byrne. It might be nice to see an artist actually be able to draw the difference.
My only real problem is that Quitely's characters look puffy. I am used to the very streamlined art from the past, so his stuff just has a wierd feel to it.
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