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SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
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Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
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| Posted on 06-03-2006 14:33 |
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Just like the my JUSTICE (which no one has went to for a while!) I decided to do a review topic on Superman/Batman, another one of my favorite titles.
To start off, I decided to review the first three arcs as a whole before going on its current arc; With a Vengeance. On that arc though, since its last issues for be released this month, I think I'll review that arc the same as the others.
Arc 1: PUBLIC ENEMIES
The World's Finest, we all that name. No, not the website. I'm talking about THE World's Finest: Superman and Batman. Before the new title, we saw either their team ups in either the Batman books, the Superman's, JLA, or etc (since theres alot). Now, the great Jeph Loeb gives us a title that has that team up in goo stories. Simply titled Superman/Batman.
The first pages tell it all:
"The dream always begins the same. My parents... Jor-El and Lara put me in the rocket as the planet Krypton breaks apart."
"The nightmare always begins the same. My parents... Thomas and Martha Wayne take my hands as we leave the theatre."
"I can only imagine how difficult it was for them sending their only son into outer space... as their world died around them."
"I can only imagine the fear that gripped them when the gunman stepped out of the shadows... never knowing that these were their last moments alive."
This explains how light Superman is and dark Batman is. By comparsion, I can't even think of them being friends Pre-Crisis 1986. It feels better here with them seeing the other as an ally and trust each other while not really agreeing with their actions.
One of the good things about this book, if not the whole series, is that this doesn't focus just on Superman & Batman. Here, we're given the JLA, JSA, and Outsiders with Robin and Batgirl joining. And a new Toyman, ally mind you and his...well you would have to see it. If you never got JLA, like me, this is your replacemnt 'til Vol. 3 launches. And like HUSH, this is important since Luthor says "there will be....a CRISIS!"
Now, the bad: theres good action moments but this leads to character development is at a minimum. If you haven't been getting Superman, you may be at a lost by the previous Supergirl. Since she's only featured here and never again. Your choice is either
a ) Ignore it.
b ) Get SUPERMAN: THE 10 CENT ADVENTURE #1, SUPERMAN VOL. 2 #190, & SUPERMAN VOL. 2 #200 to have the beginning and end to THAT Supergirl.
c ) Or...since Power Girl doesn't appear once this Supergirl does. Put in you brain and pretend that THAT Supergirl is actually Power Girl with a costume change because she wanted to change.
There are others but the main one: in the infinite expanses of space this asteroid just so happens to be on course to hit the earth? Drawn by Superman. Let me say this: this is better resolved in the nexr arc: Supergirl of Krypton. So you need both.
Overall, this was a great read or readers who haven't gotten, at all or in the long time, or ones who have gotten in their lives: Superman and Batman.
Rating: 8/10
Arc 2: SUPERGIRL
The previous arc on the asteriod continues and is resolved here with the appearence of Kara Zor-El, Supergirl. And a fight of sorts between Superman and Batman. Supes thinks she's the real deal, Bats however says she could be an impostor and they should be careful. And he's right, why did Superman let her in the Fortress when he waited a long time to do the same to Superboy.
How Superman feels is directly due to the fact that in this book, he explains why he's alone. Once Supergirl appears, he goes out of his way to bring her in, literally. And he's not gonna let Krypto (the dog is here) keep on barking at her, Batman saying she may not who she is, Wonder Woman (yes, SHE's in here too) just kidnap her and take her to the amazons, and Darkseid lay a finger on her.
Now thats cool.
Since the reboot, the rule was Superman was the ONLY survivor of his planet. Superboy appeared but was a clone. Many Post-Crisis Supergirls appeared too each with differernt origins. And Krypto appeared in his 2000 appearecne created from a Krypton trap to lure SUperman, the sog followed him home after.
With this Supergirl, I thought they were braking their own rules set in 1986. I guess her being the second and only second survivor was fine when she appeared. And she was cool so I had no beef as no one else did. (Her current Supergirl series does explain her more complete detailed origin but I'll review that as a special on a later date)
Wonder Woman, Big Barda and the whole DC superheroes and teams appear in this arc as since this series gives us more characters than just the World's Finest. Wonder Woman and Big Barda are the important ones too as they are important to the plot of the story. At first, I thought WW was a little evil at the Supergirl kidnap, like Batman. I didn't like it at first, nor them. But when I realized that they were helping her since she was inexperienced I cleared that up.
Oh, the art. This is Michael Turner. When he does women, you go geeky. K? k.
Overall; while I did not explain any bad parts because...I couldn't find any, this gives you another good story and should be bought along with Public Enemies.
RATING: 8.9/10
Arc 3: ABSOLUTE POWER
When you talk about Superman or Batman, or even both, you have to talk about their origins. They're widley known by all. This story firasts bring you that. We see the familar elements of the Kents seeing Kal-El and the murder of the Wayne parents. But then, something bad happens: the Kents get killed and so does the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents. The people take the baby and 8-year old child to their care. Now, Superman/Batman are the world's mightiest rulers with an iron fist.
This breaks away from the other two arcs as they are about the current continunity. This is parellel universes and what-ifs. And what I said, that ain't it. Theres more universes with differenr settings/actions, etc. It was cool and interesting on these what-ifs, even what would happen if Batman got the killer and save the parents of his.
Uncle Sam, Wonder Woman once more, the resurrected JLA, and Selina Kyle (I like what she was wearing) appear in this. Including the return of Kingdom Come Superman after his apperence in Public Enemies. Including a cameo of the Legion of Superheroes and their villians.
I don't wanna spoil but I have to say this: when Batman stopped the killer and saved his parents' lives which caused a great reaction (of course) and the world would end up being ruled by Ra's Al Ghul. When you think about it, and the great possibilites if Krypton never exploded. Are these tragidies really tragidies? I quote Batman in War on Crime "...my parents deaths were the best thing to ever happen to me..." BEST THING. With what these heroes face, and we face and the endless possibilites of both, are these bad stuff actually great?
I don't know.
Before I go, here's some bad points: the climax was fine by me and others see it as weak and not fully explained. Why were Batman and Superman bouncing around from alternative reality to alternative reality every time, and why were they being attacked by a bunch of DC's western hero's like Jonah Hex and Scalp Hunter in alternate Gotham? I'll leave that to you. Doesn't mean you can't get the book.
Overall; this was another exciting arc of Superman/Batman.
RATING: 8/10
Coming soon: the regular issues and the entire fourth recent arc.
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
Edited by Darknight on 17-08-2006 15:57 |
 
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Gothamite
Blue Collared Worker
Posts: 476
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 06-03-2006 15:24 |
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Just one quick question: how is this thread 'official'? Hate to nitpick, but did DC hire you or something?
In the shadows I saw my destiny...
I would seek justice...
I would have my revenge... |
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 06-03-2006 17:39 |
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I labeled it official for my reviews and so maybe it can be used for an all purpose S/B thread
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
FlaBat
Dark Knight
Posts: 1526
Location: Miami
Joined: 24.06.05
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| Posted on 06-03-2006 23:30 |
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It's "Official" as far as I'm concerned, so let's all play nice OK 
Nice reviews BTW.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 06-03-2006 23:32 |
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And its nice to have a topic for anything and everything on this series
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Panzer
Blue Collared Worker
Posts: 369
Location: Garland, TX
Joined: 14.01.06
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| Posted on 07-03-2006 01:10 |
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Great topic. Like most of us here , My hero has Always been Batman. Never been to big on old blue.
John Hinton
Panzer's MySpace |
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Detective
W. Indust. Employee
Posts: 661
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 07-03-2006 14:54 |
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Nice reviews.
"Public Enemies" seemed pretty good, my brother has the trade so I should read it all sometime.
The Supergirl arc was real good, I haven't read #8 and #12 though.
I haven't read any of the third arc though, just flipped through a few of the issues.
There's no doubt that this is a good title (in my opinion). Jeph Loeb is one of my favorites, and DC seems to always get great artists to illustrate it.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 07-03-2006 15:54 |
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The only problem I really had with the first arc was that Loeb decided to tell us Superman and Batman's origins. It's been done enough and was pretty superfluous to the story. We know that they are different people from different worlds who see things differently. Other than that he did a great job of making the movie that we'll never see in theatres, and doing what Loeb tends to do best: bringing lame Silver Age concepts into the Modern Age in an awesome way.
To get the whole Supergirl arc you have to read the first 5 issues of the Supergirl title with it. Brings everything together nicely.
Absolute Power was ok. I think that this was about the time that the book started to get delayed even more so I forgot a lot of the story.
I can't even remember the name of the current arc, but nothing has really made sense, and it has been pretty heavily delayed. I do look foward to the tribute issue to Sam Loeb and the new creative team though.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 07-03-2006 16:48 |
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#7:
Part of the good things from this series is that Superman/Batman isn't just about them. More DC characters come in and interact with them. They are important as the big two like the plots are.
In the case of this issue, we have another World's Finest team but still from the Superman and Batman families: Superboy & Robin. As teenagers, and in their Teen Titans book, they have problems teens face. But because they are teenagers, they think and act in ways that adults like their mentors can't. Which makes them different. For instance; Superboy & Robin are best buddies. You know what I mean when you compare them to their mentors.
In this story, Superboy & Robin are aksed by their mentors to see if the new, friendly, Toyman wants to be part of Batman's team. When it seems like Toyman's answer is a "no", they soon have to fight Metallo and his mecha stoled by the Toyman.
Toyman was in the first arc "Public Enemies". This issue is sort of a sequel to Toyman's involvment in the first arc, not its main plot. Since Toyman is japanese, just like in the first arc, expect mechas like in animes in this.
This issue is a quickie and its average. I would recommend it since theres nothing really wrong with it. Its just a good Superboy/Robin story. But it isn't REALLY needed in the case of Public Enemies nor the Supergirl arc which started after this. I'm not good in saying about art. Its fine, it looks like they're in a fog. I don't what I meant from that. So sorry.
In case you ask; this isn't in the Public Enemies TPB or HC. You'll have to find the issue itself to read it.
RATING: 7/10
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
FlaBat
Dark Knight
Posts: 1526
Location: Miami
Joined: 24.06.05
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| Posted on 01-04-2006 23:24 |
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I need to pick up the TPB?s but have yet to see them. I did pick up Superman Batman #24, for no other reason than the cover.
It?s hard coming into the near end of a story arc, but Batwoman, Superwoman and even Superlad looked great. Even Batzaro looked interesting. I?m hoping DC Direct does figures on all four of them.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
spencer1984
Dark Knight
Posts: 1271
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 30.06.05
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| Posted on 02-04-2006 10:05 |
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I just picked this one up, not realizing how long it had been since #23 hit the stands. I started reading it, and suddenly realized I had forgotten much of the earlier story...I felt like I was coming in at the end of the arc myself. |
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Chris
Dark Knight
Posts: 2999
Location: Richmond, Indiana
Joined: 22.06.05
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| Posted on 02-04-2006 10:32 |
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Can some one give a summary please? Who are these people??
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 02-04-2006 13:55 |
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I'm gonna review the whole arc of this once its done.
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
FlaBat
Dark Knight
Posts: 1526
Location: Miami
Joined: 24.06.05
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| Posted on 05-04-2006 22:33 |
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beyond wrote:
Can some one give a summary please? Who are these people??
!!! Spoiler Alert !!!
Batwoman, Superwoman and Superlad are on the Cover. Batman was traveling back from another world when he ends up in an alley with Batwoman and Superwoman confronting him. My guess Batman has somehow gotten onto Earth 2. Batwoman is Helena. There?s a moment when they face each other and Batwoman says ?Bruce??? and Batman says ?Helena??? and then they ask each other ?Why are you dressed like this??. Batwoman identifies Superwoman as ?Laurel?
Since I have not read the rest of the story I?ll let somebody else bring you up to speed.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 06-04-2006 09:38 |
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Batwoman, Superwoman and Superlad are on the Cover. Batman was traveling back from another world when he ends up in an alley with Batwoman and Superwoman confronting him. My guess Batman has somehow gotten onto Earth 2. Batwoman is Helena. There?s a moment when they face each other and Batwoman says ?Bruce??? and Batman says ?Helena??? and then they ask each other ?Why are you dressed like this??. Batwoman identifies Superwoman as ?Laurel?
Since I have not read the rest of the story I?ll let somebody else bring you up to speed.[/quote]
I picked this up yesterday. It was a pretty fun issue. I think that Loeb was really just trying to do a fun weird story. It just resulted ina really confusing first couple of parts.
SPOILER ALERT
Picking up where Flabat left off...
Batman says that he needs to get back to his world, and asked if they have a boom tube. Superlad flies in and knocks Batman out. Batwoman tells Superlad to take him to the cave. Superlad asks, "Why me?" Batwoman tells him that it is because Superlad knocked him out.
Batman wakes up in the cave. Batwoman reveals that Batman and she have identitcal DNA. They doubt Batman's credibility because he asked if they had technology from Apocalips, and they can't trust anyone associated with Darkseid (who is also a woman in this universe, but we never see her). To help Superwoman, Batwoman, and Superlad determine if they can trust Batman they call in Miracle Maid and Big Bard.
The Joker reveals that he created the Maximums (the Ultimates-like team that Batman and Superman took down an issue or so back). He sends them to attack Batman and the group that he has found in the alternate universe. When the two teams face McGuinness drew a great shot that copies the layout of one of the JLA/Avengers covers, very cool tribute.
During the fight Joker appears and takes aim to kill Batman with some kind of gadget built into his cane. Batzarro jumps in the way of the shot and dies for Batman. Joker says that this is a great day since he finally killed Batman, and he isn't going to stop until all the Batmen that have existed or will exist are dead.
Early in the issue Superman pulled Darkseid (the one from the normal DCU) from the Source Wall (Superman trapped him there at the end of the Supergirl storyline). Darkseid then proceeded to pay Superman back by pounding on him.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Phil
Vigilante
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 06-04-2006 20:42 |
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i saw a batman beyond somewhere in one of the issues....anyone know what was going on then? was that terry?
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Darknight
Dark Knight
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
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| Posted on 07-04-2006 08:52 |
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Phil wrote:
i saw a batman beyond somewhere in one of the issues....anyone know what was going on then? was that terry?
That was a couple of parts back. In the same issue Batzarro saw the Red Son Superman. Basically it was the result of Joker and Mxy messing with the universe. I don't remember for sure if it said that that was Terry. I will look it up when I get home. Basically it was just a little wink to the fans from Loeb and McGuinness. It doesn't necessarily mean that the comics are going to lead to a Batman Beyond type story. Future continuity is always in motion.
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 07-04-2006 10:43 |
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In that issue, Batman Beyond was Tim, as in Tim Drake. It was set in present time as he was driving the batwing based on the design from BTAS.
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Phil
Vigilante
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
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| Posted on 07-04-2006 22:57 |
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yea i heard it was tim, but i looked it up on wikipedia and on there it sed his name wud be changed to terry in the TPB. they sed it was a mistake, but i wudnt mind it being tim, cuz tim was gnna be batman anyways...according to teen titans.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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RE: The official SUPERMAN/BATMAN discussion thread |
Nate
City Hall Board Member
Posts: 1099
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Joined: 29.07.05
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| Posted on 28-05-2006 23:06 |
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...sorry for being so late...
Arc 3: WITH A VENGEANCE
One thing is common in the DCU is the concept of the multiverse. It hasn't been new then and now (even with Infinite Crisis). This idea is interesting to see an alternate version of a character(s) in a world similar to them and us. Consider this a tie-in of sorts to Infinite Crisis.
In an alternate universe, a superhero group called the Maximums fight their own villians until Superman and Batman come in and end up killing one of the Maximum's members before they escape. Now with revenge on their brains; the group goes out and finds the real Superman & Batman, who don't know why the group is fighting them, and are then being taken and hunted as they pass through every of any parallel world that has their own version of the World's Finest. Plus; who's pulling the springs?
Previously, the ABSOLUTE POWER arc didn't have anything to do with the continunity of the DCU. I thought it was the same here, until the end of it. That end leads this storyline to be some kind of foreshadowing of Infinite Crisis and the future in 52 and OYL and beyond. Even Darkseid asks about his role in it, which there isn't. And thats true.
The best things was the alternate World's Finestes. We had the communist President Superman from Superman: Red Sun, the Terry McGinnis/Batman from Batman Beyond (NOTE: the issues made a mistake of Tim being the Beyond Batman, TPB will correct that), female versions of Superman & Batman as Superwoman & Batwoman in a world where women are the dominating class insyead of men (didn't the show Sliders have that?), and we also have Bizarro and also a connection to Bizarro World we have a Batzarro.
Plus, there are elements from the Silver Age in this as well. Maybe because the multiverse was introduced in the Silver Age. For example: we have SUPERGIRLS. Every incarnation, even the modern one of course. One of them is the Supergirl from the Silver Age. The first one. Also, a returning character from Batman's campy, goofier days: this series also has Bat-Mite. Was I pleased to see him? Not really, he is a classic character I can give you that but I'am not fond by him. I'am glad that he doesn't last that much.
Those were the good points. Now here is where I explain my low, dislike/bad points: I know this was the last story Loeb was gonna do and add that with his son's death I don't really wanna give anything bad about it but I'am a reviewer so....I kinda have to. The low point was the ending. THE ONLY LOW POINT AT ALL. I was expecting bigger and it was in a way but not extended I should say. The whole thing was explained and why it happened also, I can give you that, had a little tiem-travel gimmick, but I thought maybe a few pages more of action would've worked. But nothing that meant this was bad overall.
Overall; this was another exciting arc of Superman/Batman. I hate to see Loeb go as he was the genius that started the series to a good start but there is a reason, and we can't fight that.
RATING: 8/10
Up next: Sam's Story.
You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
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