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All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 17-05-2006 14:36
User Avatar Nate
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This is to start up the topic of the book, tha took SO LONG, to coem out today.

My review will be up later.

As the first of the new topic, I saw it what the Miller cover looks like. Lets' compare of what people will get:

Miller cover:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1898_148443505

Lee cover:
http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/4547_400x600.jpg

I would rather get the Lee one than Miller's. Better yet, EVERYONE will get the Lee one.

You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns

Edited by FlaBat on 12-06-2006 23:09
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 17-05-2006 18:41
User Avatar Nate
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PLOT:

With Vicki Vale in critical condition, Batman and Grayson reach the batcave. Batman goes out and find out whats going on and gets really *censored*ed off when Alfred does something to Dick Grayson: gives him something to eat.

REVIEW:

Finally, we get to the Batcave. And what a Batcave it is. Lee?s Batcave shot is spread throughout 6-pages and shown in every detail. I like this cave. It kinda makes me think of it being like the ULTIMATE Batcave. I mean you have the various cars of every era and you have past elements like the cases with ancient armors, kinda like from Batman ?89. And the DKR Batmobile. And then, you have modern elements like the organic Batplane and the huge main batcomputer seen in the post-NML Batcave.

I think this is similar to All Star Superman and its elements. For ASS, the Fortress was all Silver Age elements wrapped together nicely in there from the huge door, to the small but extremely heavy key, to the robots. For ASB&R, the Batcave has elements from the start of the modern Batman from O'Neil/Adams era, Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis and now.

Before I continue on, I like to go over this time problem of how long Batman & Grayson been in the Batmobile vs. the other scenes with ?Six months ago?? and ?Fifteen hours ago??: First off: despite what things Miller has in his writings, he would do things in the make sense realm. Re-reading #3 after Issue 4, I can point out that the Black Canary segment is before the whole storyline and the Clark Kent with the Bat-Napped newspaper is before a certain issue. Not the issues we?re reading and is out now and not in the current point of the story now. Reading the solicits of the only known next two issues, I can safly say the Clark Kent point is before Issue 6.

Let?s go now to the fourth issue?

With this issue, everyone?s dream comes true: the batcave is finally reached and the second half of the story takes place there. Now Superman does appear here but in a cameo role. Just like in the previous issue, the only word he says is ?Damn!? now since he will be in the JLA in Issue 6, you mean to tell me you can?t add more lines?! After I though of that, I rethought of him and what Batman wants him to do, which Superman happens to do afterwards and I realize that Superman wouldn?t have anything else to say. Just strange to repeat that one word.

Now time for me for half of my brain to fight over what was the strangest thing in this whole issue: when Batman is about to leave Grayson in the cave, he screams of what he would do now and what if he needs to eat. Batman replies that the cave is big enough for him to sleep and his food will appear. After that line, Grayson sees a bat and a rat. FOOD?!

Okay now, this Batman IS INSANE. I know they want to show why Batman would need a sidekick to bring him out of complete darkness, but why this extreme? And he fights Alfred because he gave Grayson a bacon cheeseburger and fries? Man, he truly is nuts. Batman explains he was going to do something. I don?t what that was. But Alfred said that he chose this life and he doesn?t want the kid to eat something like a rat.

One thing I like to point out was that Batman at one point treats what led to him becoming Batman and what has happened to Dick Grayson as a destiny anyone would be happy to have. But he?s also still hurt from it from another point. A trick is a maybe, but still that shows how insane, crazy and psychotic he is in this. I could say they?re making good ideas of how dark and cold Batman could be which leads to Robin. But whatever his plans are, I hope we get to know what they are soon. Because this title has one enemy: DELAYS. Miller, Lee, Dido, could be anybody that?s the cause but it has to stop.

Overall, this was still good in its own way. Questions unanswered and I hope we get more issues. One more thing: STOP THE DELAYS!

RATING: 7/10


You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 17-05-2006 18:47
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lol..ASS...

anyways, this sounds pretty interesting. but batman making dick eat rats was a little strange. i guess it cud be fun joke, but if he was serious, then hes crazy. haha, oh well. probably once dick becomes robin, he'll make batman sane.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 18-05-2006 09:33
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I only bought this for the batcave spread. I had to fold it ou tin the store before I was convinced that a "poster" would be worth the money. It was, so I am going to see what I can do to find a frame that it will fit in. Anyone have an idea as to how to cover up the boxes? It really bothers me that they put Miller's crap writing on top of such a great image.

Yes, I said it. Miller's writing is crap. I love Year One, Dark Knight Returns is great, but this is horrible. I finally got around to seeing Sin City in the 20 years that it took between issues 3 and 4 for this title. This is just a Sin City story tweaked to kinda fit with Batman. Basically all Miller did was amalgamate a couple of the Sin City characters to make this whacked out Batman.

If you've enjoyed the past few issues, more power to you. You will probably like this one (on the good side, they actually managed to get out of the Batmobile). If you want a pretty cool Batcave poster pick this up, but don't expect the story to have improved.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 18-05-2006 17:11
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I think the main reason why the story is thought by many as not going farther is ebcause if you look at Miller's work which were as eries (DKR, DKSA & Sin City), each part were released as volumes. All Star Batman & Robin are released as issues and each one has a piece of what a volume would have.

Yeah, I must've not seen it but Batman sees Dick Grayson as a apprentice and almost like a son somewhat. Miller, while showing why Robin is needed for a complete dark Batman, still shows that even Batman has a sorrowful side even when he realizes what he's doing after he hits Grayson and when he thinks back at his parents' death.

You don't get it, boy... this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table.
(crack!)
And I'm the surgeon.
- Batman - The Dark Knight Returns

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 18-05-2006 23:32
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Nate wrote:
I think the main reason why the story is thought by many as not going farther is ebcause if you look at Miller's work which were as eries (DKR, DKSA & Sin City), each part were released as volumes. All Star Batman & Robin are released as issues and each one has a piece of what a volume would have.

Yeah, I must've not seen it but Batman sees Dick Grayson as a apprentice and almost like a son somewhat. Miller, while showing why Robin is needed for a complete dark Batman, still shows that even Batman has a sorrowful side even when he realizes what he's doing after he hits Grayson and when he thinks back at his parents' death.


Gotta agree with your first point.

Slow pacing is fine, in fact alot of times it works to a series' advantage because it allows more time to develop the characters. BUT this series is not only going at a slow pace, its issues are coming out far apart from each other (and not on time either)

I'm sure in the form of a trade this might work a little better.



Of course there's also the radically different portrayal of Batman. I'm not gonna say I totally like it, but I don't totally hate it either. I just need to see more and see where it's going.

Frank said its definately going somewhere at Wondercon, and I still have faith in him so I'll keep going with the series.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 19-05-2006 10:31
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The longer this story goes, the more I'm leaning towards DK's thoughts. I finished reading #4, and my main thought was "this was bad." The art remains great, and I don't mind a grittier take on Batman, but this goes beyond that idea; this isn't a "realistic Batman" or a "gritty Batman" so much as "some thug who dresses as Batman." The dialogue feels wrong, the pacing is death-crawl slow, and Alfred's characterization is the only one even remotely close. Heck, this story doesn't even fit it's own continuity - why is the DKR tank being built now, when Batman specifically says that he "modified it during some nasty riots a few years back" in a story that takes place a quarter century from this story? A minor point, but just indicative of the overall feel of things here.

True, the delays certainly don't help, but I just don't think the story itself is all that good.
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 31-05-2006 19:51
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Frank Miller is making the worst BATMAN ever!!!!!

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 31-05-2006 19:56
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and here i thought it was gnna be so good...frank miller and jim lee, it seemed liek such a good idea, but i gues frank miller lost his touch. i mean DKSA was terrible! atleast i thought it was.

http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 12-06-2006 22:59
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DKSA takes a few rereads, but I love it.


Anywho, one thing I read somewhere tha made alot of sense is this. Maybe Batman is beign portrayed so radically psycho and whatnot so that when Robin, who is always seen as the one making Batman more human, finally does become Robin and is accepted byb Batman the character will see a radical change.

So perhaps Batman's odd behavior is just meant to further emphasie how Robin affected, or in this case will affect, Batman.


Just wish it'd come out faster so we could at least get a glimpse into what the hell is gonna happen in the story.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 04-08-2006 12:56
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Is all star batman and robin any good? I haven't heard too many nice things about it, but I love Jim Lee's art and I like that it starts from the begining. I've fliped through the pages a couple times, but I think I was getting the worst parts or it.

On the cover for #6 batgirl is on it, but it's not drawn by Jim Lee. Is Batgirl/Babs going to be in it? And my next question is who wears that much jewelry while fighting crime? Lol!! I hope she's not drawn like that in the comic!!



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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 04-08-2006 14:05
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batgirl wrote:
Is all star batman and robin any good? I haven't heard too many nice things about it, but I love Jim Lee's art and I like that it starts from the begining. I've fliped through the pages a couple times, but I think I was getting the worst parts or it.


Personally, I think that it is only good for pretty pictures, and Miller's abysmal script is barely letting Lee do the cool action shots that he excels at. The story, what little has actually been released, is crap. They spent 2 full issues in the Batmobile.

There are several people who think that this is a great story. I think that this is a script from Sin City with the names changed. To me Sin City type character are not Batman type characters.

I can not recommend this. It is the first Batman story in 67 years worth of comics that I can not find anything good in.

If you do want to read it, I think that your best bet would be to wait until a trade is released so that you can read the whole story at once instead of waiting 3 or 4 months between issues. Of course, that could be another several years before enough issues are actually released.

On the cover for #6 batgirl is on it, but it's not drawn by Jim Lee. Is Batgirl/Babs going to be in it? And my next question is who wears that much jewelry while fighting crime? Lol!! I hope she's not drawn like that in the comic!!


That would be drawn by the story's writer Frank Miller, who's drawing talents have degraded even more than his writing skills. Fortunately Jim Lee does the interior art, so Batgirl should not look like that in the comic.

Assuming #6 hits stands, it is probably safe to assume that Batgirl will be in the story. Based on Superman's appearances I would not count on her being in there too much. It has the possiblility of being Barbara Gordon, but I have not seen anything indicating either way. There may be some new when we get closer to the release date.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 04-08-2006 23:11
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That picture of Batgirl looks much better than Miller's usual style. It looks somewhat anime, actually.

I wonder if Jim Lee can draw a better Batgirl than Ian Churchill? Has Lee ever drawn Barbara Gordon as Batgirl? Churchill's rendition of Batgirl (actually Clayface in disguise) in the current Supergirl series is my favorite drawing of her.

Also, isn't it a bit early for Miller to be introducing Batgirl into this series?

- D
Edited by batchat on 04-08-2006 23:16
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 05-08-2006 11:34
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Thanks Dark Knight. Now I know not to waist my money, but I'll have to get it when batgirl comes out, just to see what they did with her. It's hard to find any comics with batgirl/barbara.
It's really early to introduce batgirl. Dick should be in like college by the time she is introduced, shouldn't he? Barbara's going to be closer to Batman's age I think.

Do you have a picture of Churchill's batgirl? I haven't read any of the new supergirl comics. Not alot of artists have drawn a batgirl I really like.

Here are 2 pictures of Batgirl done by Jim Lee:

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 05-08-2006 23:57
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batgirl wrote:
Do you have a picture of Churchill's batgirl? I haven't read any of the new supergirl comics. Not alot of artists have drawn a batgirl I really like.


Thanks for posting that Jim Lee sketch of Batgirl. Does it come from an issue of a comic series, or is it a stand-alone sketch (which is what it looks like... )?

I performed a short search for images of Batgirl drawn by Ian Churchill... with no usable results. If I don't find a suitable scan of his artwork soon, then I may purchase an extra copy of Superman/Batman #19 (also printed as Supergirl #0) and scan his renditions of Batgirl and Supergirl myself.

Does anyone here happen to have a scan handy? wink If not, then give me a bit of time. I am sick of poorly designed comic-book web sites, and I've been thinking of designing my own Batgirl/Supergirl image archive anyway.

ADDITION: I thought it might to wise to clarify that the above is not a stab at this site... lol. Rather, it is aimed at the large number of completely unorganized image archives that abound on the 'Net. Click the Batgirl link... and BOOM! Several hundred images in no particular order without artist or source citations... <sigh>

- D
Edited by batchat on 06-08-2006 00:21
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 06-08-2006 11:08
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I don't think it's from any comic. You can go here: http://groups.msn...lery.msnw and find alot of artwork by jim lee. His art is my inspiration when I draw!! Lol! I've gotten 10 times better at drawing comicbook characters since I started studying his art.

I tried to do an image search too, but I couldn't find anything. From what I saw of his art, he's really good too!! I'm sick of reading comicbooks that I could draw better. The art is really important in comics, and sometimes it's like they just don't care.

That would be cool if you made an image archive!! It's hard to find good pics of Batgirl or Supergirl.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 07-08-2006 13:46
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batgirl wrote:
Thanks Dark Knight. Now I know not to waist my money, but I'll have to get it when batgirl comes out, just to see what they did with her. It's hard to find any comics with batgirl/barbara.
It's really early to introduce batgirl. Dick should be in like college by the time she is introduced, shouldn't he? Barbara's going to be closer to Batman's age I think.

Do you have a picture of Churchill's batgirl? I haven't read any of the new supergirl comics. Not alot of artists have drawn a batgirl I really like.


Picking up the Batgirl issue to see if you like the comic is probably a good idea. You may end up liking the title. There are some people who do. I'm just not one of them.

I don't remember Batgirl being in that issue of Superman/Batman, but then again that has been a while, and I am losing a lot of memory recently. I need to dig that up.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 08-08-2006 01:49
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Wow guess I am the only one who Loves it!

I dig it the most and love that Batman gets to play a Bad Ass!

Again Batman is A Character loved by us all and this is just Millers take on him. Batman was around before all of us and well be around way after we are all dead. So there are going to be allot of diffrent takes on him. Some I have Worshiped , some I liked others I thought were to corny some I just down right hated. Same gose for us all Im sure. Personally I love Millers take, The only thing that I hate is that its taking to dang long for them to come out!

John Hinton

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Edited by Panzer on 10-08-2006 04:14
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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 08-08-2006 12:06
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I'd really like to see how Miller does batgirl/barbara's story. I liked the Batgirl: year one mini-series. The art wasn't great, but the way they sorta stuck with the orginal story of batgirl's begining, and updated it and gave her more personality, was good. But I think Miller will write a better, maybe darker Batgirl with more character and background... hopefully.

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RE: All Star Batman and Robin; the Boy Wonder #4 Talkback - Posted on 09-08-2006 21:21
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batgirl wrote:
...I think Miller will write a better, maybe darker Batgirl with more character and background... hopefully.


Having read some of Miller's work, I think that he'll likely write Barbara Gordon as a hooker. LOL

As promised, Batgirl by Ian Churchill:



What do you think? B)

Also visit: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/moonhorns/my_photos

- D
Edited by batchat on 10-08-2006 02:47
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