| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 25-10-2006 20:58 |
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Chris
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The thing with this List.. more than likely, it was not a Comic fan putting it together. So we are lucky Bats and Supes are on it at all.
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 25-10-2006 22:21 |
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Razhwurz
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Phil Wrote: if it's originality ur talking about...then superman isn't revolutionary either.
It's not originality I'm talking about, it's influence. Superman influenced writers into making a whole new entertaiment industry (Action/adventure comic books), and Superman brought the idea of the Herculian hero out of books and mytholigy and into the homes and imaginations of every generation after his conception.
Phil Wrote: did spidey REALLY make batman more human?
Yep, he did. At the time Spider-man was created superheroes had to be perfect, they had to be symbols of strength and justice, and they had to be Herculian. Than, a comic writer named Stan Lee came up with the concept of a superhero that was an every-man, but he was never fully able to imagin it until the comic industry began to wain, and Stan was going to be fired; he decided to go out with a bang, and he created Spider-man. Luckily for Stan, it was so succesful that he was able to keep his job and make a series about Spidey.
Long story short, Spidey was the first superhero to be invisioned as a character and not a folk hero.
Phil Wrote: did u not know that batman was a dark character to begin with?
Yep, at the time of Batman's conception a lot of comics were dark, but most parents viewed them as offensive, so kids had to hide them under their mattress so their parent's wouldn't throw them out.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 25-10-2006 22:23 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 25-10-2006 23:02 |
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Caleson
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Razhwurz wrote:
At the time of Batman's conception a lot of comics were dark, but most parents viewed them as offensive, so kids had to hide them under their mattress so their parent's wouldn't throw them out. A method I'm still forced to do... Speaking of which, it's way past my bedtime, and I'm not even in my PJ's yet! 
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 14:37 |
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spencer1984
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real dark knight wrote:
We've got a high profile, new telling of the story on TV here at the moment, which I think isn?t bad (apart from the fact I didn't know they had Max Factor and Revlon in circa 1300).
 Nice one.
real dark knight wrote:
& I liked Firefly - but I always thought of it as more intergalactic wild west than intergalactic ye olde England. It's good regardless though (and I really fancy the dippy mechanic).
Everyone does. At least, everyone should.
I agree, it was definitely a western set in space, which is why it probably missed most audiences. Western fans wouldn't watch anything with a spaceship in it, and sci-fi fans couldn't deal with "ain't." I was just thinking about that episode "Jaynestown," where the people all thought Jayne was this heroic Robin Hood-esque figure, when in reality he just had to dump his loot to make good on his escape.
As for Batman's influence...I have to agree that he belongs up there with the top three. Batman may have several traits in common with other comic characters, but he is the archetype, the perfect melding of all of those traits.
His influence has gone far beyond comics, too: how often (outside of geek culture) do you hear someone utter something related to "it's clobberin' time?" Now, how many times do you hear someone say something along the lines of "holy something-or-other" to express surprise, or "something-mobile" to refer to a unique car (bloodmobile, popemobile, etc.). One can argue that the Thing has had a truly unique impact on comics, but Batman has had a much larger impact on culture in general. |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 16:08 |
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Phil
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oh...i seemed to have missed this. i dont know how, it's the title of the page. lol...but the list is for the characters who influenced our society, behavior, and course of history; not other characters. now it makes more sense that he's on there.
and besides...even if it was about influencing other characters...batman started the whole sidekick thing. i guess that's more of a DC comics thing, but he did start it.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 17:01 |
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Razhwurz
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Batman does have a lot of influence in pop culture; but that influence isn't nearly as strong as Supes' or Spidey's.
Whenever you see a modern american hero character, it's more than likely that that characters existance was made possible by Superman; sure you'll here people say, "Holy industrial floor cleaner Batman!" but if it weren't for Superman, Batman would never have even existed.
And the modern era of comic heroes are treated as humans, and that's because of the popularity of Spider-man.
But how about Bats, sure he's made some popular frases and has become a house hold name; but Spider-man and Superman created a whole new era of entertaiment. When you pick up a comic, that's because of Superman, when you pick up a comic with a good story, that's because of Spidey.
Do you see what I mean? Supes and Spidey influenced other stories, and that means that they have influenced pop culture in a gigantic way ever since their conception.
And I guess I can take the Thing off that list, he was more of a prototype for Spidey than a gigantic influence.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 17:52 |
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real-dark-knight
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I just can't see how you can say Batman isn't in same league as Superman or SpiderMan! Whatever way I look at it, in whatever context, I think those 3 stand together looking down on everyone else; I think you could argue the case for any of them individually to be top of that tree. If I had to choose; I'd probably say Superman is the ultimate main man, but I'd listen to decent arguments for all of them (arguments like those you've put up for 2 of them already!!!)
I think some would add Wonder Woman to the above list - but personally I see her in the next tier down (alongside The Hulk, Fantastic Four & X-Men).
Thats the way I see it.
And remind me, who the **** is Siegfried????
Edited by real-dark-knight on 26-10-2006 17:55 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 17:57 |
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real-dark-knight
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Razhwurz wrote:
but if it weren't for Superman, Batman would never have even existed.
Thats true!!
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 19:09 |
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Phil
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you're talking about influencing other characters dude...the list is for the characters who shaped our society and stuff. i see where ur coming from though.
but spiderman is pretty influential to society. i'm pretty sure everyone knows the line "with great power comes great responsibility," but to batman's respect, i think everyone will remember "it's not who i am underneath, it's what i do that defines me." i think it was last year or something that my pastor connected that line to the bible.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 20:54 |
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Razhwurz
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Phil Wrote: the list is for the characters who shaped our society and stuff.
Exactly! And Spidey and Supes shaped the Comic Book industry, which is a very important part of american history.
As cool as Batman is, he's only a sign of how great a Superhero can be; while Spidey and Supes shaped what makes a superhero great.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 26-10-2006 20:54 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 21:57 |
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Phil
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yeah cuz everyone else on the list shaped the comic book industry right?
the comic book industry is the comic book industry. they're talking about how they shaped our society, behavior, and the course of history. hope that makes sense to you. or am i the one misinterpreting? looks like we wont know until someone with the book tells us.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 22:18 |
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Chris
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Adapted from the book 'The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived: How Characters of Fiction, Myth, Legends, Television and Movies Have Shaped Our Society, Changed Our Behavior, and Set the Course of History' by Allan Lazar, Dan Karlan & Jeremy Salter, copyright 2006 by Allen Lazar, Dan Karlan & Jeremy Salter, published by Harper, a division of HarperCollins Publishers.
This is not a COMIC book thing.. 
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 26-10-2006 22:51 |
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Razhwurz
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Phil Wrote: the comic book industry is the comic book industry. they're talking about how they shaped our society, behavior, and the course of history.
A lot of American mythology is built off Superman. Now lets say we sit down to watch Batman Begins, as we do that our lives are being affected by Superman; in the late thirties Superman was so succesful that it's publisher attemted to make other succesful superheroes, and one of them was Batman.
Want a couple of more drastic examples?
Superman was the first succesful attempt to make a action/adventure Comic Book, after it's success people started paying more attention to adventure comics; one such comic was a a little comic strip named Flash Gordon, and this strip was succesful enough to become a movie serial. After viewing Flash Gordon, an up and coming director was inspired to make a Sci-fi movie; that director was one George Lucas, and that movie was Star Wars, the first Blockbuster film.
Ever hear of Anime, a hugely popular form of animation from Japan. Did you know that Anime finds it's roots in Manga, essentaly Japanese Comic Books. And did you know that the Japanese picked up Manga from American action Comic Books; which of course were made possible by Superman.
So not only do we owe Comics to Superman, as well as Japanese animation and a major chunk of the Sci-Fi industry; but the big budget movie as well.
And Spidey's influence is a lot smaller than that; but it's still rather large. As Spidey was the first succesful attempt at a compelling Superhero, he influenced other Comic series to evolve; and as such a whole generation of writers was influenced to make more compleing action heroes, and I'm not talking about comics exclusively. You may not know this, but a lot of writers were once comic fans, and as such the evolution of dramatic action in America is in part due to Spider-man.
In contrast Batman has always gone with the flow instead of shifting it. He origanally had few gadgets, but as gadgets became more popular he started getting more high-tech. At first, when comics were dark, Batman was dark. Than in the forties as Comics got lighter, so did Batman. And in the seventies and eighties when the creation of the anti-hero darkend the industry; Batman was given room to go back to darkness.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 27-10-2006 10:35 |
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spencer1984
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Let's make sure we all stay civil, guys 
Your mention of a blockbuster reminded me of someone else "who never existed" and should have (but didn't) make the list: Bruce the shark from Jaws. Jaws was the first true blockbuster, essentially launched the careers of such culture-movers as Steven Spielberg and John Williams, and was a benchmark in modern cinema. Not to mention the (literally) millions of people who never went swimming again after that movie.
Batman did his fair share of culture moving, though: The Dark Knight Returns is credited with being the turning point for comics in the 1980s, help shaping how they are today. Batman '89 was the first time a dark comic book had been adapted to film, leading the was for everything from Blade to Road to Perdition. It also marked the first time that marketing had been used to launch a movie like that, something we take for granted today. Batman: The Animated Series was a whole new take on cartoon shows, and has too many superlatives to list. The '66 series had the largest audience growth of any TV program, ever. It also led to the launch of other TV adaptations of comic books, and can be seen as the show that made everything from The Green Hornet to Smallville possible. By extension, without The Green Hornet, Bruce Lee would not have been the star he was: the ripple effects of Batman move way beyond his direct influence. |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 27-10-2006 14:36 |
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Phil
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oh yeaa...bruce lee was kato.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 28-10-2006 00:43 |
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Razhwurz
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spencer1984 Your mention of a blockbuster reminded me of someone else "who never existed" and should have (but didn't) make the list: Bruce the shark from Jaws.
Bruce technically did live, as Bruce was the name of the prop shark and not the fictional one; but that's really just me being picky.
Batman has had some influence, but really it's not as large as Superman's and Spidey's. While Dark Knight Returns is credited for being a turning point for comics, it was really the last step in a slow progression that began with the creation of the anti-hero; where as Spider-man was a giant leap forward.
Now I'm not saying Batman had no influence, just that his influence pales in comparison to Spider-man's and, definetly, Superman's.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 28-10-2006 01:21 |
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Chris
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Ok.. Razhwurz.. your saying alot of the same stuff over.
First. Batman influecned us because he has shown us that a normal human wih no powers can be a Superhero.
And I'm sorry, I guess I'm not that aware of how Sipderman has done anything, though I do like the character.
Besides, this whole thread was started to say hey, the normal person sees that Batman is an imporant iconic character. Is Wonder Woman? Yes, is Spiderman? Well, maybe. but come on, your on a Batman board saying that Spiderman is more imporant that Batman???
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 28-10-2006 16:10 |
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Razhwurz
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Beyond Wrote: but come on, your on a Batman board saying that Spiderman is more imporant that Batman???
I'm not saying that, I'm saying Spidey had more cultural influence.
Batman has evolved over years, every aspect of Batman was gained from the outside; the concept of a human superhero was quite common when Batman arived, as was the concept of a sidekick when Robin arived, and the concept of high tech gadgets when Batman started using them, and the concept of a hero being an orphan when Batman got his origin.
However, while not every aspect of Spider-man was original, the one aspect that counts was; he was an every man, Spider-man was built on this concept, and with this concept he reawakned the industry. The Comic Book industry is very important, a lot of modern (and classic) writers are fans of comic books, and as comics evolved to become more three dimensional, so did other media; all thanks to Spidey.
I'm not saying Spideys a more iconic character, I'm saying he's more influencial; and that's what the list is about, the most influencial people who never lived
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 28-10-2006 20:50 |
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Phil
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okay...but did spider-man get on the list? hahaha, batman wins. flawless victory.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
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| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 28-10-2006 21:12 |
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Caleson
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The friggin' Marlboro Man got #1. I agree that Spider-Man is probably in the top 3 greatest comic book characters, but let's try not too get riled up over which superheroes got which spot on this moronic list...
Phil wrote:
okay...but did spider-man get on the list? hahaha, batman wins. flawless victory.
FINISH HIM !!
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