| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 29-10-2006 04:57 |
|
Guano King
Gotham’s Newest Citizen
Awards:
None
| 
Posts: 8
Location: Great Britain
Joined: 28.07.05
 |
|
|
Razhwurz wrote:
Batman does have a lot of influence in pop culture; but that influence isn't nearly as strong as Supes' or Spidey's.
Reckless assumption, lol.
 |
 |
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 00:59 |
|
Razhwurz
Caped Crusader
Awards:
None
| 
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
|
|
Guano King wrote:
Razhwurz wrote:
Batman does have a lot of influence in pop culture; but that influence isn't nearly as strong as Supes' or Spidey's.
Reckless assumption, lol.
How do you think that can be an assumtion. It's an indisputable fact.
Superman: Responsable for the comic book industry, the invention of the superhero, the blockbuster movie, the rise of populatrity in sci-fi, and the entire Japanese animation industry.
Spider-man: Responsable for the concept of treating a super-human character like a human, not only in comics but in other media as well, and the rise in three dimensional stories that followed.
Batman: Inspired the rise of comic adaptaions into live-action and popularized the sayings "Old Chum", "To The Batmobile" and the ever classice "Holy [Insert Noun Here], Batman!".
Exactly how does Batman rival Supes and Spidey in this list?
And for the last time, this is about influence, not iconisim.
Influence: The power to affect, control or manipulate something or someone; the ability to change the development of fluctuating things such as conduct, thoughts or decisions; the status of being able to dictate the actions or behaviors of an object or person; moral or political power over a person or group.
Just because a character is iconic or interesting, of which Batman is both, dosen't make them influencial.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 30-10-2006 01:01 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 06:30 |
|
Phil
Vigilante
Awards:
|
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
well..the way i see what u said about spider-man, it looks like WE influenced spiderman, and not the other way around.
razhwurz, maybe you should have made the book. cuz u clearly understand EVERYTHING.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
 |
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 12:37 |
|
Darknight
Dark Knight
Awards:
| 
Posts: 1010
Location: NW Arkansas
Joined: 26.06.05
|
|
|
Razhwurz wrote:
Spider-man: Responsable for the concept of treating a super-human character like a human, not only in comics but in other media as well, and the rise in three dimensional stories that followed.
I am not sure how you can say that other types of media didn't treat superhuman characters as human before 1963 (is that the right year, I really don't feel like looking it up). There are piles of literature teachers that would probably feel that there have been books and movies that had more characterization than Spider-man that were released over 100 years before then. Stories with depth have been around for a long long time.
Really you are only focusing on influence in comic books, not culture. People world wide would barely know about Spider-man 6 years ago. Having a hit movie makes a big difference, but before then, I would not be surprised if the majority of people didn't even know who Spider-man was behind the mask prior to the movie's release.
Comic book culture is a very very small fragment of society (apparently smaller than the smokers). Sure the majority of comic stories were very one dimensional before the Marvel Revolution (just made that up, patent pending) that helped bring better, more realistic stories to comics. Stan Lee and company really did a lot for comics, but you can't say that they changed all other media. Really they just took the style used in other media and applied it to comics. However, there are several things that pre-date Spider-man that used the same style.
Ever read the Spirit? I am just now starting, but it is some really good stuff. There apparently is a reason why the prestigious award in comics is called the Eisner. I picked up the Best of the Spirit at my local library; I suggest you guys check out the Spirit.
 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 12:50 |
|
real-dark-knight
Caped Crusader
Awards:
|
Posts: 726
Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey
Joined: 28.07.06
|
|
|
Darknight wrote:
Sure the majority of comic stories were very one dimensional before the Marvel Revolution (just made that up, patent pending)
I like it!
Also, what's Ronald McDonald got to do with the price of fish? Or is he on this daft list too?
Edited by real-dark-knight on 30-10-2006 12:53 |
 |
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 13:17 |
|
spencer1984
Dark Knight
Awards:
|
Posts: 1271
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 30.06.05
|
|
Y'know, now that you mention it...if we consider McDonald's role in the fast food industry in general, plus it's global impact (I remember how big it was when the first McD's opened in the former Soviet Union), he wouldn't necessarily be a bad addition to the list.  |
 |
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 14:07 |
|
|
real-dark-knight
Caped Crusader
Awards:
|
Posts: 726
Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey
Joined: 28.07.06
|
|
spencer1984 wrote:
Y'know, now that you mention it...if we consider McDonald's role in the fast food industry in general, plus it's global impact (I remember how big it was when the first McD's opened in the former Soviet Union), he wouldn't necessarily be a bad addition to the list.
Actually now that I have mentioned it.................
My last post got me thinking;
The 1st time I was in the States (1980 - I was 12!) I remember how excited we (me and my brother) were when we first came across a proper USA burger place!!! And I'm sure it was McDonalds!
There are a couple of things I remember clearly about that holiday (not that this is remotely connected to the 202 least influential people that did/didn't live/breath or read Batman);
firstly - approaching the main double doors to exit Miami Airport, seeing the heat haze and the yellow taxis and (even as 12 year old) being acutely aware that that was America;
secondly - myself and my brother becoming so excited that my uncle nearly crashed the car when we saw above mentioned Burger Bar!
Anyway, the point of this post was to say that I've just had a look at their website (to see when it began and if it was possible that it was Ronald that nearly got us all killed in a car crash), and I kid you've not, if you're so inclined, you can actually listen to a McDonalds Podcast!!!!!
Never mind the next instalment of Pendant Productions Batman or Superman - I'm off to listen to McDonalds last quarter profits & losses!
What the **** !!?!!?
Please....... |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 15:13 |
|
|
spencer1984
Dark Knight
Awards:
|
Posts: 1271
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 30.06.05
|
|
A lot of businesses are going that way, to allow 24/7 access to their information for investors around the world. Yeah, dull as dishwater to us, but my only portfolio is the one I used to try to get into an art school years ago. I'm sure someone with a few thousand invested in the company would find them more interesting.
That's a great story. Yeah, yellow taxis and burger joints are kind of staples here. |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 16:17 |
|
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
listen, the way I see it, is that if we're talking about a character that can be seen as more human than super-human, i'd have to go with batman. Spiderman in the comics seems to be relating more to an "underneath the mask and powers im an average joe like you" kind of thing, which kids might like because it shows you dont need to be the coolest kid in the world to be a hero(the original ORIGINAL peter parker was as DORKY as they came. skinny, glasses, dorky clothes etc) But i think i relate more to batman than spiderman in EVERY WAY. Batman symbolizes what its TRULY like to be human. The tendancies to make failures, to feel RAGE (something most super heroes LACK making them feel LESS human. I have RARELY seen spider man feel RAGE and HATRED, always being shown as a happy guy making corny one liners at his enemies. Humans DO NOT act this way.) We can relate to what batman feels, the anger he feels, the desperation he feels, when he feels lost inside. When i lost my aunt to cancer i felt angry and lost. In this way, i feel batman has been an influence that spider-man could never be. So im saying, not because im a batman fan, because i geniunely think that batman is the ULTIMATE hero that we can relate to. We can understand where hes coming from, because after all, hes just as human as you and me
 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 16:46 |
|
|
real-dark-knight
Caped Crusader
Awards:
|
Posts: 726
Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey
Joined: 28.07.06
|
|
I think everything that Razhwurz has said about SpiderMan is quite true; it's just that I also think that Batman stands up and gets counted when it comes to influence (and if I was pushed into a choice over the 2 of them, I'd pick Batman as numero uno).
I guess one of the things we've got to remember (and this is similar to the drum Caleson's been banging since this thread began) is that Batman, Superman & Spidey are all comic characters - and the list actually means............. well, nothing.
That was quite a personal post TDK666 - that (to me at least) immediately put Batman, Siegfried, Superman & Ronald McDonald into perspective.
It also possibly made me realise (as sad as it is) that maybe Marlboro Man at the top isn't so silly. Which I totally accept is at odds with my above point that the list means nothing. Don't know. Over & out on this one. |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 16:58 |
|
|
spencer1984
Dark Knight
Awards:
|
Posts: 1271
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 30.06.05
|
|
|
That's a really good point, TDK666. We've ben talking about how influential Batman is (or isn't) based on measurable impact...what changed specifically because of the character. The influence of the character to each of us on a personal level can't be measured, but it still effects us and, by extention, society as a whole. |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 17:37 |
|
|
Phil
Vigilante
Awards:
|
Posts: 2061
Location: Gotham City
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
both spider-man and batman are "human"...i believe. not EVERYONE is the same.
i think spider-man is influencial in that, even though u might be a loser, you can still help with ur talents. even IF peter wasn't spider-man, he probably would have found a cure for cancer or something, lol. nerd. but yeah...he's influencial to the geek community.
and as for batman; i think he's influencial to pretty much everyone (assuming everyone has problems). either it's a struggle from the past, or a current struggle, batman has all of it. batman is full of struggles, lol. and not only that he has these struggles, but he deals with them in a cool, almost good way. and he has "good" morals.
http://batmanytb.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=4 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 18:15 |
|
|
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
|
spencer1984 wrote:
That's a really good point, TDK666. We've ben talking about how influential Batman is (or isn't) based on measurable impact...what changed specifically because of the character. The influence of the character to each of us on a personal level can't be measured, but it still effects us and, by extention, society as a whole.
Thank You, and i most definetly agree
|
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 19:31 |
|
|
Razhwurz
Caped Crusader
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
|
|
Umm... TDK666, if your saying that Spidey wasn't human than I shudder to meet Stan Lee, as Peter Parker was very much inspired by Stan's teenage years; and if Stan Lee's not human than he's probably an alien.
And every aspect of Batman's personality you used to as "proof" that he's more human than Spidey is a trait Spidey had in the days when Stan was writing The Amazing Spider-Man. And it's funny that you say that Spidey seldom makes mistakes, as his entire origin rests on the moment he let a crook go, and by effect caused the death of his uncle.
And Batman wasn't that human to start with, at first he was perfect; he could solve crimes no one else could, he could avoid getting angry and stay pacifistic, he could come to the perfect conclusion at the right moment, and no human on earth could out think him. It wasn't until after Spidey influenced the comic industry to treat the super human characters like people that Batman became a complex, and realistic, character.
And how you think of Batman is how I think of Spidey, that's why I believe he's th ultimate superhero.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
Edited by Razhwurz on 30-10-2006 19:39 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 21:30 |
|
|
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
im not even gonna state why i think your wrong, im not even gonna STATE my ideas.......all im gonna say is.....buddy your in the wrong forum. This is a forum for BAT FANS not spidey fans. Your in the wrong place, i can help you find a good spider-man forum if you REALLY want one, ok?. ALSO, im really AMAZED to see how you've made it your DUTY to personally WEED out everyone here who was STATING THEIR IDEA, and COMPLETELY ATTACK THEM. Buddy, if you read MY POST, it says I, as in THATS WHAT I THINK, and its subject to change according to what ANOTHER person may believe, personally think, what i posted. And you made it your GOD GIVEN duty to try and break me and attack me with your smart allecky responses, ummm....TDK666...sorry your 100% wrong. How about you act civil, and state your IDEAS in a fashion where you dont attack anyone like the rest of us, ok? thanks. And if you really bothered to read mine and spencers post you'll see that we were talking about how batman has PERSONALLY affected our lives and how we PERSONALLY relate to him
Edited by TheDarkKnight666 on 30-10-2006 21:51 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 21:50 |
|
|
Razhwurz
Caped Crusader
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
|
|
TDK666 you, and in fact a lot of people on this forum, need to learn there are to kinds of realities; how things relate to us, and how things exist.
If I said Johnny Depp is a good actor, that's purely how Johnny Depps performances relate to me. It's the same when I say "I think of Spidey as the ultimate superhero"; that's how Spidey relates to me.
However, if I said Johnny Depp was in Pirates Of The Carribean: Dead Man's Chest, that is how it exists; and no matter what your oppinion is, it can't change that. The same goes for when I said Spidey had all the traits you said he didn't. And the same goes for when I said Batman didn't evolve into the character your talking about until after Spider-man's influence.
I've looked over the post that you seem to believe was entirly opinnion, and found that the only piece that was opinnion was clearly marked as such.
And none of my posts have I ever said Spider-man was superior to Batman; all I've said is that Spider-man has influnced a large number of stories and as such has effected the every-day lives of more people than Batman; and that Batman, and every other hero that existed before Spidey, wasn't three dimensionalized until after Spider-man changed the industry.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 30-10-2006 21:59 |
|
|
TheDarkKnight666
W. Indust. Employee
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 699
Location: Woodside,NY
Joined: 30.07.05
|
|
that last post was rather...odd. What you said about the whole johnny depp ordeal WAS true, but you STILL have to see that OTHER people might not see things your way and might not think spider-man as influential as batman, or batman as influential as spiderman. Its not as you put it, INDISPUTABLE FACT, my friend. If I and other people on this forum, as you put it, "need to learn there are to kinds of realities; how things relate to us, and how things exist", then YOU need to learn to LIVE with other peoples opinions, instead of harboring on them like a bickering 3 year old for days and coming back at them for their opinions. The meaning of an opinion-. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. I think everyone is entitled to posting their opinion without you having to all them out for it. You can continue to post YOUR opinions, just stop calling people out for theirs. And my post was ALLLLLL about linking Batmans emotions and feelings to my past personal experiances and SINCE i can connect to him on THAT level, thats why I see him as the ultimate hero. This isnt fact, but rather MY opinion. Maybe you should re-read my post inital post if you missed that the first time through
|
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 31-10-2006 00:06 |
|
|
Razhwurz
Caped Crusader
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 1672
Joined: 02.08.06
|
|
We seem to have misinterpreted each other's posts; I was saying that Spidey has had more of an effect on overall culture than Batman, because his story has inspired other stories and that inspired other stories and so on, so that a large amount of the stories we see, read or hear each day have at least some inspiration from Spidey.
I wasn't saying that Batman didn't have as large an impact on individuals, or that he was incapable of effecting lives in big ways; in fact if you read my first post in the thread you'll see that he is the fictional character who influenced me the most. It's just that Batman has mostly effected people who are fans of Batman; while Spidey has effected Spider-man fans, almost every modern comic fan, movie and book writers, book critics and movie critics, and some Mom in Oregon who dosen't know what a comic book is.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 14-11-2006 23:22 |
|
world_gone_bats
Gotham’s Newest Citizen
Awards:
None
|
Posts: 11
Location: South Australia
Joined: 22.04.06
|
|
real-dark-knight wrote:
Razhwurz wrote:
who the f*** is Siegfried?
I couldn't have put it better myself!
& I don't even hate to be obscene!
Do they mean Siegfried as in "Siegfried and Roy"?
 |
|
|
| RE: Batman Makes The 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived List -
Posted on 15-11-2006 09:40 |
|
|
spencer1984
Dark Knight
Awards:
|
Posts: 1271
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 30.06.05
|
|
|
No, the "...and Roy" guy was real (born Siegfried Fischbacher). I think they're referring to the character from Nibelungenlied. |
|
|
Home
