I don't think that we've really had this discussion here before, but it is a relatively hot topic around the comics world. The announcement of the first 52 collection including 13 issues and only costing $20 really set me off on this, but first the basis question:
Do you prefer to buy individual issues as they are released or wait and buy trades? Do you think that it is fair for the comics companies (since DC is not the only one guilty of this) to offer trades with special features for a lower price than the individual issues?
It really parallels the home movie industry. I have 3 copies of each of the Batman movies (1 VHS and 2 DVD) and 4 copies of the original tar Wars Trilogy (2 VHS and 2 DVD). Why? Special and new features. The comics industry has adopted the same philosophy over the years.
I bought the Kingdom Come miniseries as it was released. It was not easy because my local comic shop had closed in the middle of the series so I had to hit other ones when possible. I really got lucky. I also missed the whole story. The trade is released with a new scene on Apokolips and a new ending totally changing how the story ends and helps lead into the sequel The Kingdom. I am still pretty upset about that.
I typically will buy the individual issues. The exception would be in out of present day continuity stories (Batman and the Monster Men) or things put out by other companies (Star Wars stuff mostly). I feel that my purchases are my vote for a series to continue. I pay more, but do get the story sooner. Shouldn't that reader get the reward of concept sketches and alternate scenes?
What do you think?
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 15-01-2007 18:31
To be honest, I'd probably rather wait for the TPBs to come out most of the time. However, I have two things working against me:
First, I want to keep the Batmobile History site as current as possible, so that means I try to get the comics as soon as I can. It's not always he week they come out, but it's still before the TPB becomes available.
Second, I like a lot of the single- or mini-series stories that never make it to TPBs. So while "As the Crow Flies" was made available later in a TPB, "Made of Wood" never was.
I agree with your sentiment, that the "loyal readers" should be the ones to get the extras and bonus features. For those that could go either way, it doesn't really give much incentive to spend the cash on comics.
By the way, what were the changes you mentioned in Kingdom Come?
Posts: 726 Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey Joined: 28.07.06
Personally speaking, I buy both (and I don't mean I buy the comic then the trade).
I simply couldnt survive without trades.
I buy individual comics, but (for example, seeing as it's what started you off) I've not got any of 52, and I'm simply waiting for the collection to come out.
52 isn't the only example; Identity, Villians United, Superman Sacrifice, OMAC, Vengeance, Infinite Crisis - I don't own a single individual issue of a comic that makes up one of those books. & That whole lot probably cost me in the region of ?40. Loads cheaper than individual issues. Amazon knock those titles out at a fraction of the RRP too! It helps!
Like most of us, I can only afford so much. On so many occasions I've said to myself I'll stick to Batman & Detective, but I just don't.
I can be a real sucker for anything that begins 1 of 5, or 1 of 6etc - and i'll just buy it. Then I have to (obviously) complete the run! Then I wonder why I'm broke, or my girlfriend will (not unreasonably) give me a hard time because I've spent all my money on comics or toys (and on the face of it, that sounds like a cheap joke, but in some ways it's fundamental to what I'm talking about; there is only so much you can afford, and despite my personal weaknesses when I go in a comic shop, trades do make life easier in cost terms)
Absolutes are another one! Or the 1000 page collections of FF, X-Men & Morrison's new X-Men. I owe them, but they're so in-practical. They weigh a ton! (and I'm getting a bit away from the subject now, but it's a similar principle).
Darknight wrote:
I bought the Kingdom Come miniseries as it was released. It was not easy because my local comic shop had closed in the middle of the series so I had to hit other ones when possible. I really got lucky. I also missed the whole story. The trade is released with a new scene on Apokolips and a new ending totally changing how the story ends and helps lead into the sequel The Kingdom. I am still pretty upset about that.
When fans who go out of their way to support individual titles and publishers, to be short changed like that, quite frankly, it's out of line. I don't believe this is DC/Marvel etc sticking a little bit of previously unfound art in as a freebie, it's a advertising tool to say "check out our new trade collection, with DVD style extras". Like I said, I think it's wrong.
Darknight wrote:
It really parallels the home movie industry. I have 3 copies of each of the Batman movies (1 VHS and 2 DVD) and 4 copies of the original tar Wars Trilogy (2 VHS and 2 DVD). Why? Special and new features. The comics industry has adopted the same philosophy over the years.
Star Wars (especially) does my head in. & yet I still continue to pay for things over & over. Considering the original trilogy is 3 films (obviously), I've bought each one at least 5 times. I've got 2 x VHS, and 2 x DVD of every bloody thing. The recently released special edition/original theatrical editions, well I've even bought those twice! Either I didn't see it, or they were re-released shortly afterwards in a very nice, all encompasing tin. I put the initial ones I bought on Ebay. I sometimes hate the fact I love Star Wars. But perversely, it also provides an example of how trades are priceless; The Marvel comics of original trilogy era are only really available in the 7 hefty volumes of TPBs. Even if I could find all the original comics, there's no way I'd be able to afford them.......
As much as you probably feel shortchanged Darknight, there's loads more to be said for having the individual isues - even with the extra's you're missing out on, I'd still rather have Kingdom Come in the way you do. You might as well get over it (and I say that respectfully), cos it ain't gonna change.
You probably didnt want an essay, sorry.........
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 15-01-2007 23:49
spencer1984 wrote:By the way, what were the changes you mentioned in Kingdom Come?
The story is over 10 years old so I am really not spoiling anything. Before building the Gulag, Superman goes to Apokolips and asks Orion (who has assumed his father's role as ruler, and looks a lot like him) for permission to build the prison there. It is of course denied. The things that really gets me is the added scene at the end. Bruce, Clark, and Diana have a meal at Planet Krypton. Clark and Diana plan to reveal that they are going to have a child, but Bruce surprises them by telling them that he knows. It isn't an extensive scene, but it really leads into The Kingdom.
real-dark-knight wrote:As much as you probably feel shortchanged Darknight, there's loads more to be said for having the individual isues - even with the extra's you're missing out on, I'd still rather have Kingdom Come in the way you do. You might as well get over it (and I say that respectfully), cos it ain't gonna change.
You probably didnt want an essay, sorry.........
Don't worry, you make some great points. I do need to get over it. I mainly brought this up because of the announcement of the 52 trade, and the 30% savings from the individual issues that will come with it (and that is if you pay cover price, Amazon will probably knock off more).
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 16-01-2007 08:40
Adding content to a collection is, as said, and extra incentive to get people who may have been on the fence to check it out, even if they already bought the individual issues. It's also often done because these are things the creative team planned from the beginning, but could not do in the individual issues because of space limitations. With the trade, there is a bit more elbow room for such things.
Honestly, I prefer trades. They're much easier to store than single issues, and they're usually cheaper. Plus, I have the convenience of being able to read a story in one volume, rather than having to dig through a box and deal with those damn bags and boards. The reason trades are usually cheaper is that the cost of producing the comic (writer/artist salaries, etc) have been covered, so the trade can be offered at a lower overall price. This is why original graphic novels, which feature all new material, are more expensive, despite containing less content.
These practices don't bother me, as they're well-established by now and I know it's bound to happen. If I buy single issues of a comic, I can deal with a trade coming along later that's cheaper, and may have some extras included. the trade-off is that you get the story sooner by buying single issues as they're released. I find myself sticking to trades more and more these days, because of price and convenience. I only buy a few monthlies, and they're all books that I either can't stand the wait for, like 52 and Detective, and books that I really enjoy that have lower sales, and thus need as much consumer support as they can get, like Jonah Hex and 100 Bullets. With a select few books, such as 100 Bullets, I buy the singles, and then get the trade, too. There's a good chance I'll get the trades of 52, even though I've been getting each issue from day one. It's a pain to have to dig through the singles to re-read them, and trades will be a lot more convenient. Plus, trades are easier to loan to people.
Posts: 1631 Location: Rockville, IA Joined: 24.06.05
Yes, this is a very relevant topic. In retrospect, it?s almost surprising it took so long to start.
real-dark-knight wrote:
Like most of us, I can only afford so much. On so many occasions I've said to myself I'll stick to Batman & Detective, but I just don't.
I can be a real sucker for anything that begins 1 of 5, or 1 of 6etc - and i'll just buy it. Then I have to (obviously) complete the run! Then I wonder why I'm broke, or my girlfriend will (not unreasonably) give me a hard time because I've spent all my money on comics or toys (and on the face of it, that sounds like a cheap joke, but in some ways it's fundamental to what I'm talking about; there is only so much you can afford, and despite my personal weaknesses when I go in a comic shop, trades do make life easier in cost terms)
You made some great points. That?s nearly identical to my own logic. Right now, I really am trying to stick with just Batman and Detective Comics, but I keep seeing a new #1 that?s 1 of 4 or what have you and I need to at least check out that first issue.
I actually have very few trades that I bought myself. I guess I didn?t realize they?re so much cheaper than the individual issues, and I do have a bit of that loyalty running through me in feeling compelled to traditionally buy new individual issues straight off the rack. From a collector value standpoint, I would expect a lot of individual, first print issues all together to be potentially more valuable than their trade counterparts, given that they revolve around a major story or event, but that ?value? isn?t something I concern myself with really. It?s also difficult to have up-to-date discussion on the latest comic book events when you?re waiting several months or even a full year before the TPB version of a huge story arc is released to finally read it for yourself.
That?s absolutely true that this parallels the video industry and even the action figure medium in some form. The Star Wars franchise always pumps out something new with alternate bonus content and it becomes very frustrating. In light of this, I still haven?t bought the Special Edition Original Trilogy that came out in 2004 or so. I was anticipating a full six-episode set that would include tons of bonus material and revised versions of the first two episodes in terms of outdated CGI. Whether or not that will happen is still uncertain, but for a big fan like me, it does feel odd still not owning those films on DVD. I also held off when I saw the first DVD releases of the Batman films, as I suspected a Special Edition set would come out eventually. Fortunately, I was correct.
As for action figures, Mattel has put out so many figures individually, forcing us to search endlessly and buy them at full retail price. Then a few months later, a 2-pack or box set may be released which includes the very figures and may even be much cheaper. I?ve found my recent nature of leaving figures carded very rewarding in that I can take them back to Target and buy the new releases with that money.
So I guess I?m the type to usually wait it out if I know something better will be released in terms of DVDs. Now that I know a bit more about TPBs, I may take this more into consideration for my comic book purchasing. I do love getting any and all bonus content of a beloved comic book, movie, or what have you, and throwing that onto re-releases is an easy way to sucker in buyers that may or may not have boughten the same product in its original format. I think most industries have figured this out and will continue thriving off it.
As far as the nature of comic sales is concerned, there will always be plenty of people eager to buy them as soon as they hit stores. There seems to be little stopping that. It can be exciting reading a big story month-by-month as the medium has virtually always intended for us, but I might step back and rethink my purchasing thanks to this thread.
Posts: 726 Location: The Shadow Of St Albans Abbey Joined: 28.07.06
Drunken Fist wrote: I find myself sticking to trades more and more these days, because of price and convenience. I only buy a few monthlies, and they're all books that I either can't stand the wait for, like 52 and Detective, and books that I really enjoy that have lower sales, and thus need as much consumer support as they can get, like Jonah Hex and 100 Bullets.
I was actually about to buy the trade of Jonah Hex's 1st six issues, then by chance, I got numbers 1-10 on Ebay for next to nothing. It was a result, especially as it's been such a great read. I don't really know how I came to not get that from the start, as I love cowboys/Old America & stuff. Great.
Drunken Fist wrote: These practices don't bother me, as they're well-established by now and I know it's bound to happen. If I buy single issues of a comic, I can deal with a trade coming along later that's cheaper, and may have some extras included.
Thats certainly true, it's not as if any of us are taken by surprise of the 52 tpb!
Caleson wrote:
That?s absolutely true that this parallels the video industry and even the action figure medium in some form. The Star Wars franchise always pumps out something new with alternate bonus content and it becomes very frustrating.
You're quite right Cale, you can easily add figures to comics and DVDs as examples of things on which fans fork out over & over; I've actually given up trying to complete particular sets of Star Wars figures. It's impossible!! I've got a sizeable selection - about 300 (Flabat's probably chuckling to himself at what I just called a sizeable collection ) across a number ranges. The POTF Freeeze Frame range is the closest I've got to a full set, but the ones I'm missing go for ?????s whenever they're on Ebay. FF Weequay just ended at $201 - reserve not met! (forgive me if I pass on that one). Admittedly Weequay always seems to do very very well. Between 1978 and 1985 there were 250 MILLION Star Wars figures made & sold (I got that from official magazine)
I'm gonna shut up about Star Wars now (promise).
Caleson wrote: Now that I know a bit more about TPBs, I may take this more into consideration for my comic book purchasing.
They are worth it - the half dozen or so trades I mentioned in my previous post cost me about a quarter of what the comics would've done. Amazon and Play.com (dunno if you get that in the States) begin with things at about 2/3rds of RRP, and in the sale that can drop to less than half.
I need to relax I think.......
Edited by real-dark-knight on 16-01-2007 14:35
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 16-01-2007 14:54
I myself like Trades because my local comic shop smells like a Texan Biker Bar; and yet my local book stores smell like freshly printed books... Oh, and the fact that I wasn't even alive when some of the greatest comic stories were released, and I want to read them.
As for special features, I'm sad that some people have to buy the stories again to get that stuff, some features are just little stuff thats fun to have, but kinda like Special Edition The Lord Of The Rings DVD's, some of the features are worthwhile.
And would you rather they did the Udon thing? Release each Comic with a special feature, than release a trade without the special features, and then release an Uber-magical trade with the special features.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
R.I.P. Heath
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 16-01-2007 22:57
I used to buy all the Comic Books, but stopped years ago and switched to action figures. Now I bought Infinite Crisis as it came out and I hated waiting. I buy a few single books if something is good in that book. For the big stories and older stories I prefer the Trades to the Singles. I can read more at one time and it often is less expensive than all the singles too.
RE: Comic Book Trades Versus Individual Issues -
Posted on 16-01-2007 23:54
Posts: 1631 Location: Rockville, IA Joined: 24.06.05
Razhwurz wrote:
I myself like Trades because my local comic shop smells like a Texan Biker Bar; and yet my local book stores smell like freshly printed books... Oh, and the fact that I wasn't even alive when some of the greatest comic stories were released, and I want to read them.
Heheh. My comic shop has a distinct scent of Papa John's Pizza combined with fresh comics. Not a very good smell really. And oddly enough, while the owner wears a Slipknot shirt, he usually has the awful pop station playing.
As for old issues, I've honestly been trying to buy the original, first prints of most of them dating back to the mid '60s but largely those of the early '70s O'Neil/Adams era. I guess I just find it fun to own the genuine originals. But I do have to compromise in terms of condition for a decent price. Some issues I own include Batman #189 (1st appearance of Silver Age Scarecrow), Batman #251 (1st appearance of Modern Joker), Green Lantern #76 (the prejudice/racism story), and Green Lantern #85 (the Speedy heroine story). I'd like to get the 1st appearance of Batman's "New Look" in 1964, Ra's al Ghul, and Poison Ivy, but they can get pretty steep on eBay.
My most recent vintage buy was Batman #244 for $6 at an antique shop. The cover is barely clinging on, but otherwise, it's in fine condition. It's got the "Batman wears two pairs of pants?" cover.
Of course, there comes a point where I need to just get the TPBs. I don't own too many right now, but I'm sure I will.
FlaBat wrote:
I used to buy all the Comic Books, but stopped years ago and switched to action figures. Now I bought Infinite Crisis as it came out and I hated waiting. I buy a few single books if something is good in that book.
Action figures are typically my drug of choice as well. It's much easier to "use" a figure than a comic anyway. I have a hard time getting myself to sit down and read comics, while I can admire my figures virtually anytime.
Razhwurz wrote:
I myself like Trades because my local comic shop smells like a Texan Biker Bar;.
What does one of those smell like then?
Imagine hardwood, a rather pourous material, soaked in years of tobacco smoke... I'm afraid to buy comics there because I love the smell of a fresh comic book, and I hate the smell of fags.
P.S. For those of you not well versed in british slang, fag means cigerette, not homosexual.
Never start with the head; the victim gets all fuzzy!
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) across a number ranges. The POTF Freeeze Frame range is the closest I've got to a full set, but the ones I'm missing go for ?????s whenever they're on Ebay. FF Weequay just ended at $201 - reserve not met! (forgive me if I pass on that one). Admittedly Weequay always seems to do very very well. Between 1978 and 1985 there were 250 MILLION Star Wars figures made & sold (I got that from official magazine)
It's much easier to "use" a figure than a comic anyway. I have a hard time getting myself to sit down and read comics, while I can admire my figures virtually anytime.
