Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
Have you seen the short film Batman: Dead End?
Dead End is a better live-action adaptation of Batman than any other movie or short that I have seen (including Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, and Batman: Legends).
I am most impressed with the way that Batman moves and fights in Dead End. In this film, Batman moves in a manner similiar to that of the animated version of the character in Batman: The Animated Series. He leaps into a low crouch close to the ground, looking predatory. His cape spread around him in a visual effect reminiscent of B:TAS, he slowly rises. He fights with style and speed, bringing to mind both a predatory animal and a skilled martial artist. Kicks, punches, dodges, etc. The action is filmed without the cuts, angle changes, and slow motion camera tricks that most modern movies utilize to hide poor choreography or an actor's lack of martial ability. You can actually follow the action in Dead End as each attack and counterattack is made.
I do not care for the black armor that Batman wears in Batman, Batman Returns, and Batman Begins. In Dead End, Batman wears the gray spandex suit with black cape, cowl, and trimmings that he wears in both the current comic books and Batman: Legends. His costume is masterfully crafted and looks spectacular. Sometimes, the costume of a comic hero does not translate well to live-action film. Dead End proves that Batman's costume can make the translation from page to screen without major alterations and changes.
I may post another thread to discuss the Aliens and Predators of Dead End, but for now I want to focus on the actual 'bat-elements' of the film that make Dead End superior. Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions on the above or other aspects of the film that you liked or disliked.
- D
One more thing... Those bat-blades were totally sweet! lol
batchat wrote:
Have you seen the short film Batman: Dead End?
Dead End is a better live-action adaptation of Batman than any other movie or short that I have seen (including Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, and Batman: Legends).
I am most impressed with the way that Batman moves and fights in Dead End. In this film, Batman moves in a manner similiar to that of the animated version of the character in Batman: The Animated Series. He leaps into a low crouch close to the ground, looking predatory. His cape spread around him in a visual effect reminiscent of B:TAS, he slowly rises. He fights with style and speed, bringing to mind both a predatory animal and a skilled martial artist. Kicks, punches, dodges, etc. The action is filmed without the cuts, angle changes, and slow motion camera tricks that most modern movies utilize to hide poor choreography or an actor's lack of martial ability. You can actually follow the action in Dead End as each attack and counterattack is made.
I do not care for the black armor that Batman wears in Batman, Batman Returns, and Batman Begins. In Dead End, Batman wears the gray spandex suit with black cape, cowl, and trimmings that he wears in both the current comic books and Batman: Legends. His costume is masterfully crafted and looks spectacular. Sometimes, the costume of a comic hero does not translate well to live-action film. Dead End proves that Batman's costume can make the translation from page to screen without major alterations and changes.
I may post another thread to discuss the Aliens and Predators of Dead End, but for now I want to focus on the actual 'bat-elements' of the film that make Dead End superior. Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions on the above or other aspects of the film that you liked or disliked.
- D
One more thing... Those bat-blades were totally sweet! lol
lmao, better then batman begins? LOL, thats funny. In Batman begins, people were actually frightened and scared while they watched the movie, not tickled with laughter and seized by waves of giggles while staring at Batman in his nighties. Batman Begins also stayed close to home and was greatly influenced by the comics, while at the same time transforming into a movie everyone could understand even if they had no knowledge on hte dark knight before hand. Begins was realistic and, in a way, possible. Batman Dead End isn't possible, nor is it realistic. That is the seperating factor and one of the reasons that Begins is better then Dead End, along with a handful of other reasons.
I'm sorry but I have to whole heartedly disagree with you.....
"I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me"
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
I think that Batman Begins is an excellent film. However, I disagree with you concerning several things.
First, Batman Begins was not an accurate adaptation of the comics.
1) The corrupt police comissioner was a fat white man in Year One NOT a tall black man.
2) Flask (Gordon's partner) was a blonde-haired ex-special forces member in Year One NOT a fat guy with facial hair.
3) Batman does not wear armor in the comics.
4) The killer of Bruce Wayne's parents was never identified, caught, and brought to justice in Year One, and Bruce Wayne didn't try to kill Joe Chill in the older comics.
5) Batman was not trained by Ras Al Ghoul in the comics.
Should I even bother to go on? 'Cause I can if you want... The list is freakin' huge. I could write a short book on why these and other changes detract from the film's appeal. hehe.
I need to leave my computer now but will respond to your other points later.
batchat wrote:
I think that Batman Begins is an excellent film. However, I disagree with you concerning several things.
First, Batman Begins was not an accurate adaptation of the comics.
1) The corrupt police comissioner was a fat white man in Year One NOT a tall black man.
2) Flask (Gordon's partner) was a blonde-haired ex-special forces member in Year One NOT a fat guy with facial hair.
3) Batman does not wear armor in the comics.
4) The killer of Bruce Wayne's parents was never identified, caught, and brought to justice in Year One, and Bruce Wayne didn't try to kill Joe Chill in the older comics.
5) Batman was not trained by Ras Al Ghoul in the comics.
Should I even bother to go on? 'Cause I can if you want... The list is freakin' huge. I could write a short book on why these and other changes detract from the film's appeal. hehe.
I need to leave my computer now but will respond to your other points later.
- D
1) is diversity an issue? look at harvey dent from batman 89 and then tell me why it makes a difference. the world isn't just white
2) can't argue there, although I'm sure the other flask had his bad facial hair days
3) Nolan's film was grounded in realism. Answer me this, would you run around in a fabric costume knowing you could get owned by anyone who as decent aim, or wear body armour that can protect you from someone getting a lucky shot
4) actually in Batman Year Two: fear the reaper (I believe that is the title), Bruce DOES know that joe chill killed his parents and if I recall correctly, almost does kill him.
5)Batman was trained by ninjas, ra's al ghul is the head of the league of shadows (ninjas). 'nuff said.
keep that list coming because you're only 1 for 5 right now
"I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me"
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
XforeverXknightX wrote:
1) is diversity an issue? look at harvey dent from batman 89 and then tell me why it makes a difference. the world isn't just white
Diversity is good. Changing a character's race is neither good nor acceptable. Would it be ok if I made a Martin Luther King film and cast a white man as the good Dr. King? Hell, no. Of course not. The world isn't just white, but Harvey Dent is.
2) can't argue there, although I'm sure the other flask had his bad facial hair days
Of course. hehe.
3) Nolan's film was grounded in realism. Answer me this, would you run around in a fabric costume knowing you could get owned by anyone who as decent aim, or wear body armour that can protect you from someone getting a lucky shot
Batman is fast, agile, sneaky, etc. Armor has a way of totally negating those qualities...
4) actually in Batman Year Two: fear the reaper (I believe that is the title), Bruce DOES know that joe chill killed his parents and if I recall correctly, almost does kill him.
In addition to sucking, Year Two has been declared out of continuity for some time... Unless the recent Infinite Crisis brought that story in back in line with everything else... I hate DC sometimes...
5)Batman was trained by ninjas, ra's al ghul is the head of the league of shadows (ninjas). 'nuff said.
keep that list coming because you're only 1 for 5 right now
In the comics, the two didn't meet until much further into Batman's career (after he had become "the world's greatest detective" and all that). Ra's comes to Batman because he is impressed with the Detective's skill and dedication. Ra's training a young Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins totally destroys this aspect of their relationship.
So I think that I'm five for five after all... but who cares, really? lol. I liked Batman Begins, too, so I won't waste any more time nitpicking it on this forum.
Batman does wear armour. Read 'The Dark Knight Returns', he takes a Magnum round to the chest.
And as for Year Two being out of continuity - So are the Batman films. Begins isn't even in continuity with the other films. Batman, Spider-man, Hellboy, X-Men, Superman, Fantastic Four, Punisher, Blade, Judge Dredd, none of these films is in continuity with the comics. And if it was, it'd make for a really long and boring film for the majority who aren't into the comics.
Dead End is very good, but the only (recent) live action adaptation that it is better than is Batman and Robin. You can't compare 2-hour long masterpieces to 8 minutes of Two people rolling around on the floor in rubber suits.
And continuity, eh? Yup, the Joker was killed by an alien, and Batman will readily kill his enemies with punching blades. Seems fit to me.
It seems like everyone needs to step back and cool down a little bit. This thread has gotten too argumentative.
Instead of smack talking so much, you may want to consider that there is not strict Batman continuity anymore. Heck there really has not been any for 20 years. The shift from Golden to Silver Age combined with Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Dark Knight Returns/Strikes Again, Infinite Crisis, even yesterday's Justice League #0. This is just in the comics. I do not even think that I need to get into the mess that can be Batman in other media.
We try to cultivate an enviroment where people are free to express their opinions. So Batchat prefers Dead End to Begins. I don't think that you can make an exact comparison of the two. One is a two hour movie whhich gives the time to develop stories and mix in a bit of action. The other is like 15 minutes (I don't know exactly), and really shows off the directors ability to visualize some really cool fighting, but there is not a lot of time for story development.
It is like the old cliche of comparing apples to oranges. Sure both are fruits and can be made into juice, but the tastes are completely different. They are both movies with Batman, but they have opposite feels to them.
Personally as long as you don't say that Batman Begins was worse than Batman & Robin, I have no problem with you opinion.
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
Dude... Batman and Robin was much better than Batman Begins. LOL. Just kidding.
I see your point about continuity, Darknight. Because of the convoluted mess that is DC Comics, I let most continuity issues slide unless they drastically alter a character's nature.
Does anyone else think that DC was better off before the first Crisis? The Golden Age was in continuity, and the Silver and Modern Ages were in continuity, but each existed on alternate versions of Earth. It pleased fans of the Golden Age because their comics remained in continuity on Earth-2. It allowed writers to create new adventures starring the Golden Age versions of the heroes set on Earth-2. It was an elegant solution and easy for the newcomer to DC comics to understand. I don't even bother trying to explain DC continuity to newcomers anymore: I just say "read whatever you want cause it doesn't make much sense anymore anyway".
Also, I don't understand how Batman and Superman keep ending up in alternate universes when the Crisis supposedly combined all of the multiverse into one universe...
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
Etrigan wrote:
Batman does wear armour. Read 'The Dark Knight Returns', he takes a Magnum round to the chest.
I consider 'The Dark Knight Returns' an Elseworlds tale... but who knows? I don't think DC Comics itself knows what's going on anymore.
And continuity, eh? Yup, the Joker was killed by an alien, and Batman will readily kill his enemies with punching blades. Seems fit to me.
Joker wasn't killed on-screen. And we all know that Rule #1 of Villains' Deaths is that the villain is still alive if we don't see him die on-screen.
As for the deathblow... It's a freakin Predator! What else are you going to do with it? Put it in jail? Trust the government with it? Give it to a zoo for study? LOL.
The main problem I see with post-Crisis on Infinite Earths is that things didn't stick. I was not reading comics before then so I don't know exactly what it was like. I have been told that it could be very confusing because there were no labels as to what story was Earth 1 or 2. You had to use context to figure it out. The point was to create a single universe that would be iconic enough for long time readers, but easy enough to understand for newcomers. Unfortunately the big crossover event that was Crisis on Infinite Earths was a huge money making success, so we ended up in the age of the big universe changing event that happens nearly every year.
If things had gone back to the way before with the characters going along in their own titles and occassionally crossing over like in the Gold and Silver Ages we would not have the continuity problems that we have now. Crisis was a bit of a Pandora's Box.
As far as the alternate universe thing, they worked around it to not violate the alternate Earth law by calling them pocket universes (that is where the first Post-Crisis Supergirl came from, and where Superman executed the Phantom Zone criminals), eventually no one really cared about the "rules" established by Crisis, so things became the way they are.
Sorry to shanghai your Dead End thread into a discussion about DCU continuity. Also, there are some redeeming qualities about Batman & Robin. You have to read the novel to block out the neon lights, but they are there. I may have to start a thread up about that sometime.
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
Darknight wrote:
Sorry to shanghai your Dead End thread into a discussion about DCU continuity.
No prob. I posted this thread immediately after watching Dead End, so I was still in a state of 'wow, that's so cool' and wanted to chat about it. I'm focused on other things now anyway... like the upcoming 'Batman and Son'. I loved 'Son of the Demon' but am extremely apprehensive about this new story...
Also, there are some redeeming qualities about Batman & Robin. You have to read the novel to block out the neon lights, but they are there. I may have to start a thread up about that sometime.
You should. I can barely sit through the film... so I'm curious about what you're referring to...
XforeverXknightX wrote:
1) is diversity an issue? look at harvey dent from batman 89 and then tell me why it makes a difference. the world isn't just white
Diversity is good. Changing a character's race is neither good nor acceptable. Would it be ok if I made a Martin Luther King film and cast a white man as the good Dr. King? Hell, no. Of course not. The world isn't just white, but Harvey Dent is.
2) can't argue there, although I'm sure the other flask had his bad facial hair days
Of course. hehe.
3) Nolan's film was grounded in realism. Answer me this, would you run around in a fabric costume knowing you could get owned by anyone who as decent aim, or wear body armour that can protect you from someone getting a lucky shot
Batman is fast, agile, sneaky, etc. Armor has a way of totally negating those qualities...
4) actually in Batman Year Two: fear the reaper (I believe that is the title), Bruce DOES know that joe chill killed his parents and if I recall correctly, almost does kill him.
In addition to sucking, Year Two has been declared out of continuity for some time... Unless the recent Infinite Crisis brought that story in back in line with everything else... I hate DC sometimes...
5)Batman was trained by ninjas, ra's al ghul is the head of the league of shadows (ninjas). 'nuff said.
keep that list coming because you're only 1 for 5 right now
In the comics, the two didn't meet until much further into Batman's career (after he had become "the world's greatest detective" and all that). Ra's comes to Batman because he is impressed with the Detective's skill and dedication. Ra's training a young Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins totally destroys this aspect of their relationship.
So I think that I'm five for five after all... but who cares, really? lol. I liked Batman Begins, too, so I won't waste any more time nitpicking it on this forum.
- D
1. MLK was a real person... two face was not. Fictional characters can be manipulated and in most cases are.
2. yeah...
3. we're looking at the fact that pyjama's won't stop a bullet. Thats the seperating factor right there and the reason that its silly, while armour is more practical
4. like someone else said, so are the movies. It technically happened so there is no negating that.
5. in most cases, it builds on it. While batman did impress al ghul in the comics, he also impressed him with his determination and willingness to learn. It also helped make al ghul appear as more of a father figure to bruce, making the change in their relationship much stronger.
at least we can agree that it was a good movie, but I still don't think that dead end is "better" then begins
"I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me"
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
XforeverXknightX wrote:
at least we can agree that it was a good movie, but I still don't think that dead end is "better" then begins
How about this: I made an error of language when I said that 'Dead End' is better than 'Batman Begins'. Darknight was correct: The two are difficult to compare (apples/oranges, short film/feature length, etc). What I should have said is that I think that certain elements of 'Dead End' (such as the action/fight choreography and the costume design) are better those in 'Batman Begins'.
That I can agree on. Why couldn't they just give Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney/Bale white contact lenses? It's simple, and it gives more of an authentic look. In today's world it'd even be possible, almost too easy to make them glow using camera trickery. Apart from the sloping back ears that look a bit silly, the costume in dead end is perfect.
XforeverXknightX wrote:
at least we can agree that it was a good movie, but I still don't think that dead end is "better" then begins
How about this: I made an error of language when I said that 'Dead End' is better than 'Batman Begins'. Darknight was correct: The two are difficult to compare (apples/oranges, short film/feature length, etc). What I should have said is that I think that certain elements of 'Dead End' (such as the action/fight choreography and the costume design) are better those in 'Batman Begins'.
- D
sounds good to me.... although I still disagree
"I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me"
batchat wrote:
Have you seen the short film Batman: Dead End?
Dead End is a better live-action adaptation of Batman than any other movie or short that I have seen (including Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, and Batman: Legends).
I am most impressed with the way that Batman moves and fights in Dead End. In this film, Batman moves in a manner similiar to that of the animated version of the character in Batman: The Animated Series. He leaps into a low crouch close to the ground, looking predatory. His cape spread around him in a visual effect reminiscent of B:TAS, he slowly rises. He fights with style and speed, bringing to mind both a predatory animal and a skilled martial artist. Kicks, punches, dodges, etc. The action is filmed without the cuts, angle changes, and slow motion camera tricks that most modern movies utilize to hide poor choreography or an actor's lack of martial ability. You can actually follow the action in Dead End as each attack and counterattack is made.
I do not care for the black armor that Batman wears in Batman, Batman Returns, and Batman Begins. In Dead End, Batman wears the gray spandex suit with black cape, cowl, and trimmings that he wears in both the current comic books and Batman: Legends. His costume is masterfully crafted and looks spectacular. Sometimes, the costume of a comic hero does not translate well to live-action film. Dead End proves that Batman's costume can make the translation from page to screen without major alterations and changes.
I may post another thread to discuss the Aliens and Predators of Dead End, but for now I want to focus on the actual 'bat-elements' of the film that make Dead End superior. Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions on the above or other aspects of the film that you liked or disliked.
- D
One more thing... Those bat-blades were totally sweet! lol
I totally agree with you except i think the grey parts of his suit should be black with a dark blue bat-emblem no oval/circle and it should be a clothlike armour and with long pointy sharp horns/ears
"I Am Vengeance I Am The Night I Am Batman"
Edited by Bat-Man on 21-07-2006 23:20
Posts: 59 Location: St. Louis Metro East Area (Illinois) Joined: 14.07.06
Phil wrote:
fight choreopgraphy better in dead end than in begins? gasp. hmm, whatever, ur entitled to ur opinion.
Except for the training sequence (on the ice near Ra's Al Ghoul's mountain base), the action in 'Batman Begins' was filmed and cut in such a way that it's difficult to tell what exactly is happening in most of the fight scenes because the camera constantly cuts to another angle every few seconds. Perhaps this is intended to give the audience an impression of the fear and confusion felt by the criminals facing Batman. What it is really does is simple: annoy the hell out of me. lol.
I have read about people who saw Begins in IMAX and the fight sequences gave them splitting headaches because of the jerky fast movements. It bothers me too, but I am not used to have good fight sequences in a Batman movie anyway. That is what Jackie Chan movies are for.
Funny, I saw begins in an IMAX with my wife, her sister, and her sister's boyfriend; no problems for any of us. We all thought it was a cool way of showing how fast Batman moves and how scary and confusing it is for the criminals.
BATMAN: Yesterday, Today, & Beyond, all of it's sub-sites, or hosted sites are in no way associated, or affiliated with DC Comics, Time Warner or any of it's divisions.
Items cataloged in merchandise sections are not for sale. The downloading of video game ROMs is for backup and testing purposes only. If you do not own the actual game, the ROM is to be deleted from your hard drive within 24 hours.
Any money that may be made from Amazon Associates, advertisements, or affiliate programs will be contributed to the maintaining of this website, to provide the fans with the best that we can offer.
Home
